Its the next Microsoft vs Open Source People scared of a community project which costs less, but requires additional knowledge and time to make it work.

I have the exact same view on both subjects.. each have their spot in the market place, and give it a try before you bag it

Thats hardly my problem. Being scared of open source. if it was i wouldn't be running linux on one of my PCs.

My problem was with a person not a managment computer.
the MS got draged in to it because he was trying to compare an ms to motec.
his reasong being that the only thing a motec has over an MS is sequential injection, and he is wrong. there are plenty more things the motec has over the MS that would have help the car run better.

Not that at any point in time did i recomend one be used in this case.
i would have recomended an EMS stinger V4. many because it is pass word protected and therefor is legal to use on public roads. the MS is not and by it's open source nature can not be made that way. and so it is not legal for use on public roads.

further more this

"You can always go a Megasquirt. Probably the best way to go if you're on a budget.

Even if you had more money, no use going for something more sophisticated like Wolf or Motec as each is going to give you exactally the same performance compared to the Megasquirt since you're dealing with a TBI system."

In no way helped to determine if a deul CPI setup could be done or was going to be worth the effort.

If the post had read along the lines of ..
"aside from the the custom manifolds you would need a tune able ECU.
i recomend the MS because... then go on to say what features would help and why.
I would have had no problem with the post at all.

the whole thing started because unclewoja made a statment that was untrue. then when some has a dig at him about it he takes it as a dig at the MS. If he wasn't blinded by his fixation with MS the fight would not have happened..


I'm sure unclewoja will have some thing to say about this post too and that is to be expected.


Mods i'm sure this was a waste of time and some one will delete this but i just thought it needed to be said

tickford_6.

I'm afraid to say you are wrong in your views. If I asked someone about 17" rims and they offered advice on expensie vs cheap tyres, I wouldn't consider that useless information. You seem like the kind of person that would stone that person to death for 'starting a fight' about dunlops vs Fulda or something similar.

I didn't compare an MS to a motec, I compared a motec to a MS. There's a difference.

And as I said to you before, the post of mine that you consider was the begining of the fight was nothing of the sort. All I did in that post was CLARIFY the reasoning behind my opinion. It was you who launched into the fight of MS 'bad' vs motec 'good'



This statement in no way started any fight. However, all the technical info you posted after that, info that was un-researched was the beginning of any 'fight' around here. I use the term 'fight' because you used it. I debated, you fought. Simple as that.

I would also like to clarify that in this thread, I NEVER directly compared a MS to a motec straight out. I compared a MS to a motec IN THIS SITUATION. Not in ALL situations like you seem to be getting hung up on.

I have no doubt that a motec is superior to a MS, but I'd far rather a $400 MS + wideband oxy setup and $2600 of engine upgrades like cam, head work, zorst etc, then spend $3000 on a motec and still only have a stock engine.

seems you over look any thing that might make the ms look bad.


the MS IS NOT PASSWORD PROTECTED. FOR AN AFTERMARKET ECU TO BE LEGAL FOR USE ON AUSTRALIAN PUBLIC ROADS IT MUST BE PASSWORD PROTECTED.

(that should go in the Aftermarket ECU Review sticky)

not legal in this day and age means it is not work a second look.

lets think. your on a budget, you strugle to get it done. you drive it you get a defect for it you have no money left and then also have to fix the problem too. would have been easier to do it legaly the first time.


and you are still comming back to saying that i think he should use a motec.. Show me where i said it....

thats right i didn't. i recomended he use what the tunner recomended to use. because that in turn saves money by the tunner know what he is dealing with and having the install/tune go smoothly and quikly.

that is also an other point you seem to avoid.


you also seem to think i have never been to the MS web site.
that would also be wrong.
a while back i was looking for a feul only ECU to set up the V6 chev in my hilux.
some said to have a look at the MS. so i did. and the forum was greate.
every second post is about some one having trouble with the MS they have. i downloaded the software and had a look throught that too.

in the end a 500 holley was going to be easier, cheaper, have less problems and be more reliable


ohh and by the way my view is not wrong. it is just that my view.
it's my opinion and i'm entitled to it.

What is wrong is you thinking an MS is better than a motec.
cheaper yes, Better no.

or as you like to look at it. a motec is not as good as an MS
what ever way you look at it it's still wrong

are you blind????? read the thread i'm sure you'll see a fight in there some where.

and what do we find at the top of it all.

thats right, your statment. Had it not been said there would be no fight..

jezus relax ppl

i never knew ecu's had to be pw protected.

any documentation to this? i think many people would be rooted if this is the case

I know this info may be a little late due to the b**ch slapping going on in here, but there is a Fordforums member that was doing this with a V8.

Raki is his nick. I know it was a V8 he was working on, but he might have some ideas for you...

1. I never said you said he should use a motec.

2. I never said a megasquirt was better than a motec.

3. Last time I got pulled over by the cops, they didn't ask me show them the ECU and log into it to prove to them it had password protection. Besides, it's only a 5 min job to code password protection into the megasquirt.

4. Most of the posts about problems with the megasquirt are just people posting about known problems because they were too lazy to use the search function. There are not 1000 things that can go wrong with a megasquirt.

5. If my statement provoked your ego and started the fight, I'm sorry. But inadvertantly provoking someone does not constitute starting a fight. Acting on that provocation starts a fight. Besides, I haven't said an angry word here. Only raw information.

Honestly, I have nothing against people using a motec. They're fantastic units. But we're not tuning Craig Lowndes car here looking for 0.01 sec/lap. You should be more open minded. When people s**t can new things, nothing get's better. If people s**t canned new technologies in cars, we'd still be driving T-Model Fords.

Just because something new is not better than everything else in its field, does not mean it doesn't play a valuable role in technological evolution.

I have noticed one thing tickford_6.... with each of my posts, you've got less and less ammo to come back at the megasquirt with. Now the only thing you're relying on is password protection and some un-substantiated comments.

1. this whole time you have been reffering to only the MS and motec..
it is stupid to ignore the entire middle section of aftermarket ECUs.

2.you come back to this oxy sensor comment alot. seem you should be the one doing a little research.
Wolf 3D has open and closed loop
EMS stinger has open and closed loop. and can also use wide band.
EMS 8860 has dual oxy sensors and wide band

3. the whole point of the password is so the owner of the car cannot tamper with the tune. so even if you code it in it still not legal.


4. why is it you constantly refer to performance at peak horse power and WOT ????
that has nothing to do with it. it the part throttle and cruise where it's different and as you would know every spends more time at part throttle and cruise than they do at WOT.
waggin kindly helps out here telling he owns both and then goes on to say
"Chances are both will provide adequate ability to acheive same peak power, close to the same drivability. "
well we all know wich one would have better drivabilty. and it aint the ms.

5.finaly you admit the MS has problems.

6.love to mention the price thing don't you. and go on to say how much more you pay for every thing els and only get one or two extras.
you forget to mention is the fact with the others you get a ready built computer, warrenty, instant phone suport, dyno operators know what they are dealing with and dont have to spend hours (costing money) working out the system.

7.you also like to refer back to the ECU review sticky.
considering how out of date it now is, it is of little use to any one.
have a look at it then have a look at the web sites for the ECUs and you'll see how far wolf and EMS have come in the last few months.


8.MS can not use MAF wich is very helpful when tunning an engine with a large cam. MAP and large cams is harder to tune as idle vacuum gets closer and closer to 0 with larger and larger cams. when you look at
19 to 0 inches vacuum for 0 to %100. it makes it easyer to tune. large cams can bring that to 12 or 13 to 0 inches for 0 to %100
makes it hard to get them drivable at low revs and part throttle.

it also can't use both TPS and MAP or MAF and average the two to calculate load. Being able to do that also brings in better drivabilty and economy.

9. by the exchange rate at this point in time it will still cost over $400 to get an MS here and have all the needed sensors. but you still only have a box of parts.
time spent putting it together. or if you can't paying more money to have it done.
having small tunning grids lack of MAF or combined TPS and MAP/MAF(for some people drivablity is high on the list)
local tunners having to learn the system at your expence(not every one can tune an ECU), no warranty, doesn't have base maps for our I6 or V8.
wolf and EMS both provide base maps for our engines. again less time spent setting up and tunning.

$1195 for an australian built and owned EMS stinger doesn't look so bad when you take a look at the big picture.

dude, please, get over yourself and let it die.