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| FPV_GTp |
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hi
just something i was thinking about , have no fggen idea why ???? has anyone of you LPgas guy thought about using straight propane gas in liquid form injected or metered by some jetting arrangement the correct air/fuel ratio on a high boost turbo application You wouldnt need a intercooler as the propane gas in liquid form is extremely cold ( have to do ur homework on how cold ) no need for convertors !! line feed pressure valve !!! u would have to over come it from coming on !!! one would inject ( meter some how ) into the incoming air charge stream of the inlet manifold to allow ample time for the to mix well and the liquid propane to vapourizes imagine the heat transfer MMMM !!! just a thought lets see what some of u guys come up with cheers
_________________ WANTED - Complete BTr4 and zf 6hp26 automatic transmission 6 cylinder and V8 transmission(s) suit rebuild? Drop me a PM if you can help would be greatly appreciated - thanks |
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| EFFalcon |
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you'd have to figure out a way to ensure the metering valve doesn't freeze up.
also going straight propane would make it harder to get hold of (only supagas etc sell it) but would suit a drag car or something. but as you said, i'd say its more the controlling that would take all the work with the freezing causing problems.
_________________ FALCN6 - EF GLi Turbo, 20" Rims, Air Bag Suspension, Straight LPG, 225rwkw |
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| michael |
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dont do it, dont even think about it, one word BANG!!!!! no more car.
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| twase |
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EFFalcon wrote: you'd have to figure out a way to ensure the metering valve doesn't freeze up.
also going straight propane would make it harder to get hold of (only supagas etc sell it) but would suit a drag car or something. but as you said, i'd say its more the controlling that would take all the work with the freezing causing problems. I think fork lifts use propane in those change over bottles, so that might not be a problem if its only for the strip. It must be hard to do the liquid injection as the vast majority of systems are still conventional convertor/ mixer. Cheers TW.
_________________ BF Fairmont Ghia Series II update. |
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| FPV_GTp |
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michael wrote: dont do it, dont even think about it, one word BANG!!!!! no more car.
hi LOL , what do u think the LPgas mixture contains ?? By ur thaory all LPgas systems go BANG !!!! freezing would be a issue ? i have heard of people actaully doing straight propane fuel dont know how they have done it but its a interesting concept cheers
_________________ WANTED - Complete BTr4 and zf 6hp26 automatic transmission 6 cylinder and V8 transmission(s) suit rebuild? Drop me a PM if you can help would be greatly appreciated - thanks |
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| EFFalcon |
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striaght propane can be done via the use of a normal LPG tank.
supagas allow you to fill up your car on stiraght propane.
_________________ FALCN6 - EF GLi Turbo, 20" Rims, Air Bag Suspension, Straight LPG, 225rwkw |
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| FPV_GTp |
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hi
the biggest problem is wot i have encounted is on real big horsepower engines the LPgas systems just can not cope. and wot u see is 2 ,3 and 4 gas convertors under the bonnet of the car. so my thoughts are why play around with low pressure gas when we have the high pressure in the tank as in Liquid form . ie 1 cu cm - of vapour will occupy a set about of space where 1 cu cm - of Liquid propane will occupy a very large sum of space compared to the vapour and not to mention its cooling propperties. ideal for high boost turbo applications ????? Ok we know LPgas is odaless and invisable and very flammable but so are some other fuels and people use them. cheers
_________________ WANTED - Complete BTr4 and zf 6hp26 automatic transmission 6 cylinder and V8 transmission(s) suit rebuild? Drop me a PM if you can help would be greatly appreciated - thanks |
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| Waggin |
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By 'venting' the propane in gas form into the intake tubing, you're effectivly converting it to vapour anyway due to the drop to atmospheric pressure (correct me if my theory is wrong!). Here by creating a s**t LPG Converter which will freeze up. Add engine coolant passthrough to prevent freezing and you have something which is very close to a traditional LPG mixer, except probably less effective. The only way this would work would be if the intake tubing was under the same pressure as the gas bottle
Technocarb comes to mind - do some reearch. 600+HP per mixer, and there are converters to match @ 600HP each. This is what will be used in my 347 stroker build.
_________________ WAG363: AUII LTD Supercharged 363 Dart Stroker [Supercharged 363 LTD Build] |
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| FPV_GTp |
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Waggin wrote: By 'venting' the propane in gas form into the intake tubing, you're effectivly converting it to vapour anyway due to the drop to atmospheric pressure (correct me if my theory is wrong!). Here by creating a s**t LPG Converter which will freeze up. Add engine coolant passthrough to prevent freezing and you have something which is very close to a traditional LPG mixer, except probably less effective. The only way this would work would be if the intake tubing was under the same pressure as the gas bottle
Technocarb comes to mind - do some reearch. 600+HP per mixer, and there are converters to match @ 600HP each. This is what will be used in my 347 stroker build. hi ok , we know the purpose of a convertor but a poor piece of equipmenet propane in liquid form has a greater qorking pressure than propane in a gas form freezing is a issue metering ???? the heat exchange from liquid to vapour once the propane enters the inlet manifold would be a great intercooler for incoming hot air charge say from a turbo or supercharger when on high boost . Liquid propane expands to greater volume bigger bang?????? !!!!! still need to vapourize the liquid just before it enters the cylinder to make a nice air to fuel miture rather than having a large some of air in one corner and a large some of fuel in onther cheers
_________________ WANTED - Complete BTr4 and zf 6hp26 automatic transmission 6 cylinder and V8 transmission(s) suit rebuild? Drop me a PM if you can help would be greatly appreciated - thanks |
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| twase |
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FPV_GTp wrote: hi
just something i was thinking about , have no fggen idea why ???? has anyone of you LPgas guy thought about using straight propane gas in liquid form injected or metered by some jetting arrangement the correct air/fuel ratio on a high boost turbo application You wouldnt need a intercooler as the propane gas in liquid form is extremely cold ( have to do ur homework on how cold ) no need for convertors !! line feed pressure valve !!! u would have to over come it from coming on !!! one would inject ( meter some how ) into the incoming air charge stream of the inlet manifold to allow ample time for the to mix well and the liquid propane to vapourizes imagine the heat transfer MMMM !!! just a thought lets see what some of u guys come up with cheers Just a thought? How about normal injectors with the REPCO heater thingy installed to prevent freezing, and a barby regulator to keep the pressure constant. Cheers TW.
_________________ BF Fairmont Ghia Series II update. |
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| FPV_GTp |
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wooooooooooooooooo 200 plus Kwatts that is inpressive
oops wrong thread swooorrrry 
_________________ WANTED - Complete BTr4 and zf 6hp26 automatic transmission 6 cylinder and V8 transmission(s) suit rebuild? Drop me a PM if you can help would be greatly appreciated - thanks |
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| ToranaGuy |
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Liquid lpg injection has been played with, and the real issue is in the fuel metering, not so much freezing inlet valves. LPG expands from a liquid to a gas, filling 280% more space in gaseous form iirc. Try to meter that!
Anyone heard of Liquiphase? LPG Liquid injection technology, originally trialed on a V8 5lt dunnydore iirc. It worked, but it was very far from reliable. Next best thing is current LPG Gas Injection, like what i and another forum member have fitted to our cars, my system is a piggy back so the car is dual fuel and dual ecu, the other forum member, can't remember their handle, is a straight lpg setup, with stealth injectors and stock ECU setup. The latter system would be better than mine, but it's not availible down in vic, the system i have wasn't even @ the time i had it fitted, i talked the installer into it, with a big wad of folding fun. It was still developement stuff @ the time. It was definatly worth the $$, same sorta power on LPG & Petrol, very similar ltrs to the 100KMS between fuels, and that makes the ford affordable to run. I have racked up about 40k kms on my LPG Injection system with little issues, and those i have had were related to normal engine / sensor wear and tear. It's now a commercial product, thru parnell lpg. I don't know if it will run in a boosted application, parnell won't even talk to me about it. I sugested the idea and got a big WON'T touch the thing. I would experiment with it if i had the $$. I've got 50KW of power to claim before i would have issues with it leaning out, then would need to think about another regulator and injector or two. The system i have is meant to be good to fuel 200 FWKW. But i'm busy building a Turbo & GRA LPG fed Torana 6cyl. 
Cheers ToranaGuy
_________________ I am the ToranaGuy!|74 Lh Torana Turbo|78 Hz PanelVan|86 Mighty Boy Ute|93 EB2 Ghia,GT Mockup,5spd,LPGI,Full Leather|2 x EB Xr8 5spd's|FS [VIC]: Wrecking - Eb XR8 - Parts available |Build Thread|Ebay Items - Ford Parts| |
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| Mechan1k |
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SVI LPG Vapour injection is around the $3500 mark for the full installation .... I have heard of a fwe straight gas setup in limos in QLD ... I know of a dual fuel setup on a Territory.
I am not sure how well it handles high horsepower though ... have only seen them fitted to factory setup vehicles (without mods).
_________________ 04 Territory TX AWD - Winter White - optioned up |
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| FPV_GTp |
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hi
have a look at the ford cars that come out of the factory straight gas no petrol , i know there not injected , put there power is nearly the same as petrol cars so the ECU that controls the rest of the engine managment must be tuned for optimum ignition timing and so on but i know one of my friends had one of these cars as a work vehicle and every hot day 30 degrees plus the gas system would play up ie the fuel lock off valve would shut the fuel feed to the convertor , and every time ford serviced the car they couldnt find anything wrong with the car , there reply was to him " ur car is fine " and yet on a 30 degree plus day it would play up cheers just some trivia there does anyone know what compression ratio the ford 6 cylinders on straight gas out of the ford factory ran ????
_________________ WANTED - Complete BTr4 and zf 6hp26 automatic transmission 6 cylinder and V8 transmission(s) suit rebuild? Drop me a PM if you can help would be greatly appreciated - thanks |
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| Mechan1k |
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The EGAS engines are about 20-odd kw less than the petrol variants.
It's being held back by a carby-style gas delivery system ... along with a restrictive mixer ring in the intake to the throttlebody. Also the head and pistons are different in the EGAS engine as well. Isn't kinda inferior to the petrol injected vehicles. I have an AUII EGAS ute ... and on hot days .... I don't have any issues whatsoever ... the ute runs perfectly ... even in the middle of winter where morning temps are around -4 deg ... mine starts first go (after about 2 seconds) and idles perfectly. I just run mine for pretty much 11 hours straight the other day (Sydney to ACT to Wagga to Sydney again) ... about 1000km ... temps reached 35-36 deg outside ... car ran like a dream ... as smooth as a petrol car goes. It all comes down to tuning on how an LPG car runs. I saw the specs on another forum for the AU and BA Comp ratios/power figures ... I'll post them up when i find them.
_________________ 04 Territory TX AWD - Winter White - optioned up |
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