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| Waggin |
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4.9 EF Futura wrote: Of course!!!!
So, i note that our V8s have specs where the base timing is 30*BTDC +/- 2* All the literature ive been pouring over suggests the "normal" base timing for a TFI system is 10*BTDC, which i believe is true for the Aussie I6. Unfortunately i no longer have a timing light to sus this myself, but... Does anyone know if 30* is the actual base timing for the Aussie HO? (i.e. did ford Australia physically advance the dizzy an extra 20* from the US specs)... or if its simply a "trick" in EEC's timing maps? 30* BTDC is correct for the aussie HO. I checked mine recently and it was at 28* BTDC. Couldnt be stuffed to move it yet 
_________________ WAG363: AUII LTD Supercharged 363 Dart Stroker [Supercharged 363 LTD Build] |
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| 4.9 EF Futura |
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Interesting decision from the boys at Ford... 30* seems fairly aggressive seeing as this is what TFI reverts to if something happens to the SPOUT signal....
_________________ I promise..... I will never die. |
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| raiki |
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Waggin wrote: raiki wrote: In the end the MS wont know which is on the firing stroke, because there is no cam position sensor Cant it sense that from the PIP? #1 TDC is indicated by a (shorter?) tooth. No. On EF V8s and all ELs the PIP signal is a 50% duty cycle square wave. When the ECU gets a PIP it knows there are 2 pistons at 10* BTDC. This is all it knows about crankshaft position. Obviously the EF 6 knows a lot more, due to EDIS, but it has different sensors. Base idle is 0* for all 6s and 30* for all 8s (EF and EL).
_________________ Adrian
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| Waggin |
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So the V8 dizzy is different to the EB/ED/EL 4L dizzy? Because these have a shorter tooth to indicate TDC Compression #1.
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| raiki |
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Waggin wrote: So the V8 dizzy is different to the EB/ED/EL 4L dizzy? Because these have a shorter tooth to indicate TDC Compression #1.
Nope. The 6 cylinder dizzies operate the same way as the eights, except it only has 6 vanes rather than eight. The reason should be pretty obviousy. This is a quote from the service manual "The distributor is positioned so that the rising edge of each PIP occurs at 10*BTDC, hence everytime the ECU sees a rising edge it knows that 2 of the pistons are at 10*BTDC. This is the only knowledge of cranksharf position that the ECU uses." This is for the eight. The six is the same except the PIP rising edge is at TDC. This means if the ECU ignition system fails the TFI will fire a spark at the PIP. 10* for the 8, TDC for the 6. The only system that knows about #1 TDC is the EDIS. None of the dizzys differentiate cylinders. I am not sure about the EA/EB/ED, this is all for the EF/EL.
_________________ Adrian
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| 4.9 EF Futura |
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raiki wrote: This is for the eight. The six is the same except the PIP rising edge is at TDC. This means if the ECU ignition system fails the TFI will fire a spark at the PIP. 10* for the 8, TDC for the 6. So the physical base timing for V8 (i.e. pull SPOUT connector) is 10*? But base timing is 30*?
_________________ I promise..... I will never die. |
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| raiki |
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Yep.
I don't why the 6 and 8 are so different. 6 0 Mech Base 0 software base 8 10 Mech 30 Software ??????
_________________ Adrian
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| Waggin |
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raiki wrote: The only system that knows about #1 TDC is the EDIS. None of the dizzys differentiate cylinders. I am not sure about the EA/EB/ED, this is all for the EF/EL. But but but..  The signature PIP is a great way to tell when then engine is on TDCC #1 Quote: Multi Point EFI has a PIP with one rotor blade reduced in length by approximately 30%. This provides a modified PIP signal as it passes through the Hall Effect sensor ( termed Signature PIP ). The modified signal enables the ECU to determine correct positioning of the camshaft for injector operation.
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| raiki |
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What motor is that out of ??? It doesn't look like what was in my EAs.
_________________ Adrian
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| raiki |
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Waggin, we are both correct. I have done more research.
The vanes all do have one signature PIP that is used by the injection system. It is not used in the ignition system. What this means it is there for us to use in MS if we need too.
_________________ Adrian
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| Waggin |
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Ah! CFI Doesnt have the signature PIP. I'm glad thats resolved. hehe
The location of the vane/rotor on the MPEFI Dizzy ignition does have some control over spark placement, as the rotor makes contact with the appropriate lead for spark.. Anyway.. I think this all originally came up as a question regarding finding TDCC#1 - so the answer is that it can be done. I recall looking into this as an alternative to using coilpack on my EF when setting up the MoTeC, and the motec had a mode for full cycle sensing using the MPEFI TFI ignition setup found in the EB-ED/EL falcons, plus most of the V8's.
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| South |
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Enough of this 8 banger ricey stuff...
Anyone doing anything about the I6s, Ive got a base setup, but not sure if its sufficient... Might just have to try it once the MS is delivered.
_________________ Fulli Sik Re |
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| Hyena |
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I'll be doing my 6 and likewise I'll start sussing it out when the MS arrives (probably another few weeks
 )
With an EF 6 we should have pretty much everything we need and we'll just need an EDIS6 set up - which as Waggin found out, we can get from magna V6s and I'm pretty sure ford explorer ones would work too.
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| Waggin |
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South wrote: Enough of this 8 banger ricey stuff...
Anyone doing anything about the I6s, Ive got a base setup, but not sure if its sufficient... Might just have to try it once the MS is delivered. The V8 and i6 TFI setups work the same.. so dont skip what the other guys have said. Valuable stuff there. As for the EF/AU EDIS6 config, again as Hyena has stated.. just get 3x Bosch J121 ignitors and youre sitting sweet 
_________________ WAG363: AUII LTD Supercharged 363 Dart Stroker [Supercharged 363 LTD Build] |
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| 4.9 EF Futura |
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FYI guys, just found www.diyautotune.com
They sell MS kits, unassembled for $140 and assembled for (IIRC) $270. All in US dollars, of course. Have shot an email of to him to check that the unassembled kits have all the bits required - pretty sure they do (including case) and for shipping costs etc. He's outta town attending a funeral so expecting a reply next week - will post findings here. By the sounds of it, Bowling/Grippo can take 4-6 weeks to ship the order... so this guy may be the go.
_________________ I promise..... I will never die. |
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