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| galapogos01 |
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Posts: 1139 Joined: 27th Feb 2005 Ride: Supercharged EF Fairmont Location: T.I. Performance HQ |
Timing does impact idle and rev hang - would have said you have a slipped balancer but you would have had to put a new one on for the serpentine conversion. Not sure whats going on there!
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| viper1431 |
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bry40l wrote: hey jason just wondering what happens to lean cruise when you put a chip in the el falcon ecu? Just wondering is this 'lean cruise' thing a normal function in later falcons or specific to these chips? I've just put the wideband meter in my au i6 and it seemed leaner than I expected on the highway so I googled it and this post is what came up so it seemed a good place to ask. According to my meter it was hitting 16-17:1 at 100km steady highway speed. Made me think the meter is out of whack. |
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| galapogos01 |
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Posts: 1139 Joined: 27th Feb 2005 Ride: Supercharged EF Fairmont Location: T.I. Performance HQ |
It's part of the base code, not part of the chip. The chip lets you edit how lean you want it to get.
17:1 does sound very lean, normally high 15s to 16 is what I have observed. Cheers, Jason
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| galapogos01 |
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Posts: 1139 Joined: 27th Feb 2005 Ride: Supercharged EF Fairmont Location: T.I. Performance HQ |
Want to get an Electric Thermofan on your EB-ED V8 ECU without having to add a manual switch? Enable Thermofan control in your ECU with this simple guide and one of our J3 Chips! If you don't have one of our Programmers, we can do this for you.
http://www.tiperformance.com.au/Technical/EB-ED%20V8%20Thermofan%20Control.pdf Cheers, Jason
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| shyun |
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galapogos01 wrote: It's part of the base code, not part of the chip. The chip lets you edit how lean you want it to get. 17:1 does sound very lean, normally high 15s to 16 is what I have observed. Cheers, Jason Is it meant to hold steady at 16? Mine seems to fluctuate between 15-17 when cruising about every 2 seconds. It also seems to miss/hesitate occasionally which happens when it overshoots to about 18:1. This only happens in closed loop mode, unplugging the 02 sensor or when cold it doesn't hesitate.
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| roughredXR6 |
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shyun wrote: galapogos01 wrote: It's part of the base code, not part of the chip. The chip lets you edit how lean you want it to get. 17:1 does sound very lean, normally high 15s to 16 is what I have observed. Cheers, Jason Is it meant to hold steady at 16? Mine seems to fluctuate between 15-17 when cruising about every 2 seconds. It also seems to miss/hesitate occasionally which happens when it overshoots to about 18:1. This only happens in closed loop mode, unplugging the 02 sensor or when cold it doesn't hesitate. Yep, mine does exactly the same thing. Feels like your gently touching brake pedal every few seconds. No fault codes, but unplug o2 sensor and its fine. Mine fluctuates between 14.7 & 18.4 at cruise. Also found that advanced timing causes it to run leaner? Starting to suspect ecu fault as it runs the same at cruise with chip in or out. but don't have access to another to test
_________________ Ported ED XR6 head shaved too much, AU gasket, custom Crow Cam, Pacemaker 4480's, 5-speed conversion, billet aluminium flywheel, GT clutch, T.I. Performance J3 chip, custom water/methanol injection, modified BA throttle body. Paint&Panel by Barbed Wire Fence. |
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| galapogos01 |
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Posts: 1139 Joined: 27th Feb 2005 Ride: Supercharged EF Fairmont Location: T.I. Performance HQ |
How are you measuring the AFR? How is the ECU getting a nb signal while you have a wb in there? If you are using simulated nb and don't have good earth (close to the ECU) you will cause problems.
It is normal to cycle from 14.7 to 15 or 16 but as I said earlier 18 is too lean. Have you altered your tune to add more Fuel? Remember a narrowband can only indicate above or below 14.7, it cant tell the ECU what the actual AFR is. That's why it fluctuates. Cheers, Jason
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| roughredXR6 |
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Running a second sensor so ecu sensor and signal is untouched. Tune is untouched. Same symptom with chip unplugged. Would like to put my ED ecu in to see if that fixes it, but thermo fans and bbm. (EL ECU in ED)
_________________ Ported ED XR6 head shaved too much, AU gasket, custom Crow Cam, Pacemaker 4480's, 5-speed conversion, billet aluminium flywheel, GT clutch, T.I. Performance J3 chip, custom water/methanol injection, modified BA throttle body. Paint&Panel by Barbed Wire Fence. |
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| shyun |
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galapogos01 wrote: How are you measuring the AFR? How is the ECU getting a nb signal while you have a wb in there? If you are using simulated nb and don't have good earth (close to the ECU) you will cause problems. It is normal to cycle from 14.7 to 15 or 16 but as I said earlier 18 is too lean. Have you altered your tune to add more Fuel? Remember a narrowband can only indicate above or below 14.7, it cant tell the ECU what the actual AFR is. That's why it fluctuates. Cheers, Jason Yeah I assume it should fluctuate a little, but it seems like it's doing it too much. At the moment I have a separate bung for the narrowband sensor and monitoring with a wideband. I also see no indication that it goes into lean cruise mode, or that the MFA multiplier is doing anything. It always fluctuates. I tried the narrowband sim before but it is exactly the same. A strange phenomenon with the nb sim, If I had enough current draw on the battery (high beams, thermos etc) it would just sit at about 19-20:1 and would hold it until you give it a jab of throttle. If you didn't have a wideband you'd think it was a massive flat spot. It's sort of like a worse version of what it does now.
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| galapogos01 |
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Posts: 1139 Joined: 27th Feb 2005 Ride: Supercharged EF Fairmont Location: T.I. Performance HQ |
Sounds like you just need to add a little fuel into the tune.
Lean cruise is a good fuel saver, don't disable it  Cheers, Jason
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| shyun |
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galapogos01 wrote: Sounds like you just need to add a little fuel into the tune. Lean cruise is a good fuel saver, don't disable it Cheers, Jason Yeah if it's working it is, but it doesn't seem to run any different? Shouldn't it go into open loop operation when running in cruise mode so the AFR will be about 16:1 and won't fluctuate. I don't think adding fuel is going to help if it runs fine in open loop though? It does the same behavior in closed loop regardless of what load/rpm it is, same as roughredXR6 said.
_________________ ED XR6, LeMans Red, 5-Speed |
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| galapogos01 |
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Posts: 1139 Joined: 27th Feb 2005 Ride: Supercharged EF Fairmont Location: T.I. Performance HQ |
Maybe check your o2 sensor works properly, measure it and look for codes?
Give the fuel changes a try, you never know. Cheers, Jason
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| viper1431 |
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What's the usual stock idle mixture ratio on the i6 AU's?
And when you order the J3 Chip and Programmer Pack is that ready enough for the car to run and then you tune it how you need or do we have to completely program it from scratch ? |
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| roughredXR6 |
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Ok. Tried a couple of things tonight.
Checked base timing, ~4º retarded. (Had set by ear, no rev hang, smooth idle, dead spot ~3000rpm otherwise good.) Set base timing to ~4º advanced, idle flair 300-1100rpm wouldn't settle. Rev hang at 1200rpm when throttle stabbed. Raised fuel pressure from 300 to 320kpa, exhaust note deeper but otherwise no change. Went for drive. Cronic shunting on decel. Very slight pinging over 4000rpm Running bp ultimate 98, recent new filter and pump. Clean air filter, new factory leads, ngk xr6 plugs, new cap, new rotor, new coil, new suppressor. Checked nb o2 output, ok Checked tps, ok Checked coolant sensor, ok Checked iat sensor, ok Checked for vac leaks, ok Checked canister purge, ok Checked map sensor, ok, at first. Then every few seconds frequency would go off scale? wtf? Swapped it out with another working one, same result. Checked ecu signal side, same result.
_________________ Ported ED XR6 head shaved too much, AU gasket, custom Crow Cam, Pacemaker 4480's, 5-speed conversion, billet aluminium flywheel, GT clutch, T.I. Performance J3 chip, custom water/methanol injection, modified BA throttle body. Paint&Panel by Barbed Wire Fence. |
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| galapogos01 |
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Posts: 1139 Joined: 27th Feb 2005 Ride: Supercharged EF Fairmont Location: T.I. Performance HQ |
viper1431 wrote: What's the usual stock idle mixture ratio on the i6 AU's? And when you order the J3 Chip and Programmer Pack is that ready enough for the car to run and then you tune it how you need or do we have to completely program it from scratch ? Idle mix is normally stoich, 14.7:1. A J3 Chip and Programmer pack does not come with a custom tune, you can add one to your cart if a factory tune is not enough for you to start from. PM me for more info. roughredXR6 wrote: Set base timing to ~4º advanced, idle flair 300-1100rpm wouldn't settle. Rev hang at 1200rpm when throttle stabbed. Base timing should be set as per factory (there is some argument on here about 0deg vs 10deg but I have always left them at 10degBTDC). Make sure you have set the base idle screw correctly, this and vacuum leaks (modified throttle bodies being a massive culprit) are THE NUMBER ONE source of rev hang issues and other part throttle/cruise lean running issues. Cheers, Jason
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