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| galapogos01 |
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Posts: 1139 Joined: 27th Feb 2005 Ride: Supercharged EF Fairmont Location: T.I. Performance HQ |
We can tune based off logs no worries, as long as they show AFR and RPM. We sell some of the Tech Edge gear on the site too. As Kendall said you can also get a Programmer and either I can email you a tune that you can start with and fine tune further or you can try DIY! Have a read of the guides on the site for more info.
Cheers, Jason
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| ranga83 |
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fair enough. its not THAT hard once you sit down and play with it a fair bit. there is plenty of help on here, i'd even help via email if f/b if you needed it.
_________________ ef futura, pacemakers, 2.5inch catback, k&n panel filter and 3.45 lsd. extractors/cat, ticky head, custom cam grind, t5. now onto cosmetics. |
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| roughredXR6 |
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Cool, cheers Jas, and ranga.
I might have to have another look at TunerPro, and the T.I. Performance site. Thanks again guys.
_________________ Ported ED XR6 head shaved too much, AU gasket, custom Crow Cam, Pacemaker 4480's, 5-speed conversion, billet aluminium flywheel, GT clutch, T.I. Performance J3 chip, custom water/methanol injection, modified BA throttle body. Paint&Panel by Barbed Wire Fence. |
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| efxr6wagon |
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Does anyone on this forum have experience with tuning specifically for a high-stall torque converter?
My EF flashes to 2700-2800rpm (brake off). And I am tuning with the TI Performance Tuning Pack (with great success). What I am trying to achieve is: - maximising the torque at stall, so it increases the flash rpm and launches harder, and - hitting flash rpm quicker, reducing lag on launch. Compared to a XR6 tune with standard torque converter, up to 3000rpm should I be running richer or leaner, adding spark advance or reducing it? The high stall offers less resistance/load below flash rpm, so I would expect a little leaner and with a little more advance. But I could have this all wrong, so I would love to hear from someone who has been here before. I can't currently hold stall rpm using the brakes, as it goes into limp mode every time, even using as little as 1500 rpm. I have kept increasing the limp mode rpm in the tune from 2200 all the way up to 4200 rpm, but it still goes into limp mode. It was suggested that it might be a heat issue, so I tried it with the transmission cool, but it still occurs. So, I have no choice but to launch from idle - off the brake and onto the accelerator in one motion. This works OKish - I'm getting consistent 2.27-2.29 sec 60-foot times. But I know it can do better if I get the fuel and spark optimised up to 3000rpm at WOT. Thanks for the help.
_________________ 95 EF XR6 wagon, 17" FTRs, DBA rotors, KYB/Koni, AU bottom end, ported EF head, backcut valves, SS Inductions, Territory intake, 10.2 CR, Auckland 1258 cam, vernier gear, PH4480 headers, no cat, Tickford 2.5", 2800rpm stall, J3 chip |
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| galapogos01 |
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Posts: 1139 Joined: 27th Feb 2005 Ride: Supercharged EF Fairmont Location: T.I. Performance HQ |
Does the stall LHM trigger if you put the shifter in first?
You're on the right track when it comes to the tuning around stall speed. Cheers, Jason
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| efxr6wagon |
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{USERNAME} wrote: Does the stall LHM trigger if you put the shifter in first? Good question. I believe it does it in 1st, but can't be certain. Will try that and let you know. {USERNAME} wrote: You're on the right track when it comes to the tuning around stall speed. It sounds logical, but I read conflicting things. In the Library section of the TI Performance website, Bruce Plecan in eectch98.pdf gives a real-life example (page 60-61). On a mild small-block Chevy with 2800rpm stall convertor his total WOT timing appears to be: 800 rpm: 4 deg 1400 rpm: 4 deg 1600 rpm: 6 deg 2000 rpm: 7 deg 2200 rpm: 9.5 deg 2400 rpm: 16 deg 2800 rpm: 20 deg redline: 22 deg The author says: "Might also note the funny timing under 2800 rpm. Remember the 2800 rpm stall converter. With this combo the engine can light em at will in 1st, and 2nd." And this is after perfecting the tune over about 400 iterations! So, it must work well. To me, that looks like very little advance up to 2200 rpm. But he doesn't give the AFRs, so we can't see the whole picture. And advance is basically all in by 2800rpm. I would love to understand how that all works.
_________________ 95 EF XR6 wagon, 17" FTRs, DBA rotors, KYB/Koni, AU bottom end, ported EF head, backcut valves, SS Inductions, Territory intake, 10.2 CR, Auckland 1258 cam, vernier gear, PH4480 headers, no cat, Tickford 2.5", 2800rpm stall, J3 chip |
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| efxr6wagon |
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Still researching on how to tune specifically for a high stall torque converter. Came across this comment: "There is launch mode (LM) spark advance specifically for automatic equipped vehicles. Use the additional timing to quickly bring the engine up against the torque converter. This provides better performance and lower fuel consumption." This is from www.dynamicefi.com/Tune_Intro2.php - instructions for tuning Dynamic EFI products.
This suggests that more advance below TC stall rpm will cause an automatic-equipped car to launch harder and sooner. Will try some alternative tunes in my EF - adding and subtracting spark below 3000 rpm - to test the theory. Will comment here if I find out anything useful.
_________________ 95 EF XR6 wagon, 17" FTRs, DBA rotors, KYB/Koni, AU bottom end, ported EF head, backcut valves, SS Inductions, Territory intake, 10.2 CR, Auckland 1258 cam, vernier gear, PH4480 headers, no cat, Tickford 2.5", 2800rpm stall, J3 chip |
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| galapogos01 |
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Posts: 1139 Joined: 27th Feb 2005 Ride: Supercharged EF Fairmont Location: T.I. Performance HQ |
I wouldn't use spark figures from a Chev V8 when tuning an I6 - but the principal I follow (given nobody else is chipping in) is to give it as much spark as it will take without pinging, minus 2-3 degrees to allow for hot days, while keeping the AFRs around 12.5. You may want to back off spark if wheelspin makes a good launch difficult. I go pretty safe on timing given heatsoak and fuel can have such a big impact.
Cheers, Jason
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| efxr6wagon |
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Yeah, I wouldn't use actual SBC timing on a Falcon; I am more interested in the shape of the curve, if you know what I mean.
I have plenty of traction, so I can use all the torque the engine can generate. The torque converter is loose enough below flash rpm that it's not showing the engine much load/resistance, even at WOT. So, I doubt that I will be knock limited in the idle to 2500 rpm range. Thanks for your help.
_________________ 95 EF XR6 wagon, 17" FTRs, DBA rotors, KYB/Koni, AU bottom end, ported EF head, backcut valves, SS Inductions, Territory intake, 10.2 CR, Auckland 1258 cam, vernier gear, PH4480 headers, no cat, Tickford 2.5", 2800rpm stall, J3 chip |
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| KWIKXR |
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What sort of advance are you running in the < 2500rpm range of the spark map, Roger? I've found you can get away with a fair bit of extra advance with the RH24B cam and 98 octane in the lower rev's, even with the stock stall speed.
You should be able to squeeze a little more in with the higher stall speed, might even flash a little higher if the stall is fairly loose. |
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| efxr6wagon |
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Hey Nathan,
I have bumped it up previously, so it's at 18 degrees from 600-2500rpm and 19 at 3000rpm. It gets to 2700rpm so fast that there is no opportunity for detonation below that, so it is unlikely to be knock limited in that range. I can have whatever advance I want. But I was trying to get a head-start by getting a feel for which direction I should go, and the information I can find seems to be conflicting. Is 18 too much at WOT off idle? Looks like I will have to stop being so lazy  and do some experimentation - start low and work my way up - logging as I go.Side topic: The light pinging I have been getting is almost certainly due to leaning out after installing the modified throttle body and BA induction tube. Logged a run and it was about 1.0 AFR leaner everywhere than it was before the intake changes. Will try to do some more tuning this weekend. Thanks for the help.
_________________ 95 EF XR6 wagon, 17" FTRs, DBA rotors, KYB/Koni, AU bottom end, ported EF head, backcut valves, SS Inductions, Territory intake, 10.2 CR, Auckland 1258 cam, vernier gear, PH4480 headers, no cat, Tickford 2.5", 2800rpm stall, J3 chip |
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| efxr6wagon |
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I have a weird one here. I fine-tuned my VE to get AFRs of 12.5-12.7 from 3000rpm to redline at WOT. Maybe a shade rich, but wanted to be on the safe side.
Then I experimented with advance, logging lots of runs and fine-tuning to get the quickest acceleration at each point - and it's been working great. AFRs have stayed in the mid-12s, so I haven't touched the VE tables. Logged a couple more runs tonight, and suddenly it's going way lean at WOT: climbing in almost a straight line from 12.8 at 3000rpm to 15.5-16.5 at 5700rpm! Predictably, acceleration was down a fraction where it was lean. I logged six acceleration runs from idle, the same way I always do, and all six went lean like that. The only change from the previous tune was taking one degree of spark out at 5000-5500rpm. The atmospheric conditions are basically the same. Has anyone seen this before? What could cause it to go lean like this? Clearly something odd is going on. The AFRs were previously steady as. I don't want to start adjusting VE for the new lean condition if the problem is somewhere else or is going to correct itself. Your suggestions would be much appreciated.
_________________ 95 EF XR6 wagon, 17" FTRs, DBA rotors, KYB/Koni, AU bottom end, ported EF head, backcut valves, SS Inductions, Territory intake, 10.2 CR, Auckland 1258 cam, vernier gear, PH4480 headers, no cat, Tickford 2.5", 2800rpm stall, J3 chip |
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| galapogos01 |
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Posts: 1139 Joined: 27th Feb 2005 Ride: Supercharged EF Fairmont Location: T.I. Performance HQ |
Are you tuning with the O2 input disconnected from the ECU?
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| efxr6wagon |
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Here's a pic of the log to illustrate what's going on:
Attachment: Going lean 190214.GIF [ 29.03 KiB | Viewed 220 times ]
_________________ 95 EF XR6 wagon, 17" FTRs, DBA rotors, KYB/Koni, AU bottom end, ported EF head, backcut valves, SS Inductions, Territory intake, 10.2 CR, Auckland 1258 cam, vernier gear, PH4480 headers, no cat, Tickford 2.5", 2800rpm stall, J3 chip |
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| efxr6wagon |
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{USERNAME} wrote: Are you tuning with the O2 input disconnected from the ECU? Yes, 02 input is disconnected from the ECU (has been throughout all the tuning), and the ECU was reset after the O2 was disconnected.
_________________ 95 EF XR6 wagon, 17" FTRs, DBA rotors, KYB/Koni, AU bottom end, ported EF head, backcut valves, SS Inductions, Territory intake, 10.2 CR, Auckland 1258 cam, vernier gear, PH4480 headers, no cat, Tickford 2.5", 2800rpm stall, J3 chip |
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