Hi All ...

Recently I bought a second XR6 that I just got re-registered a few weeks ago.
It is now giving me regular starting problems which is becoming a real pain ... and even more frustrating trying to fix.

A quick browse through these forums show the symptoms to be the common BEM smartlock fault of turning the key to start and getting nothing ... no starter crank and no fuel pump prime.

However unlike the usual trick of giving the BEM a "bash" or wiggling the loom connections make no difference at all.
I just have to keep "playing" ... turning the key to crank ... pulling the key out of the ignition ... locking an unlocking the smartlock ... etc and eventually it will send a signal to the ECU and it will crank and start.

So I figured I had a faulty BEM ... dry joints etc ... so found a replacement BEM at pick-a-part same model/part number as mine (blue one) ...
Pulled it all apart ... dusted off the PCB and inspected it for any obvious faults ... including a thorough check of all the soldering with a magnifying glass and everything looked fine.

So armed with my factory workshop manual which describes the steps of how the replacement BEM learns the security codes from the electronic ignition lock I kicked off the learning process and waited the 30 minutes for it to complete.

During that 30 minutes wait time I would every so often check the smartlock jewel to ensure it was still flashing the immobilised state as it was supposed too and all was going to plan ...

Until I checked again at around the 20/25 minute mark to make sure that I didn't miss the door lock change of state at the 30 minute mark that signals the successfull download of the codes.
Checking the smartlock jewel showed it to be displaying a solid "on" instead of the rapid flashing of the immobilised state and the door lock change of state did not occur after the 30 minute time period.

Refering back to the workshop manual reveals that the learning procedure was unsuccessful.

In this condition once the ignition key is taken off the run position and moved to ACC or OFF position there is a 30 second "grace" period where the engine can be restarted without having to go through another 30 minute learning session again.

So ... tried to start the car and it started successfully ...
Not much use though if I only have 30 seconds between each start ...

Had a bit of a play around and the engine started each time I tried starting it ...
The I tried delaying starting it again for over a minute ... expecting to get nothing when turning the key to crank as the 30 second grace period had passed ... to my surprise the engine still cranked over and started ...

I tried leaving the delay longer and longer ... up to 15 minutes and the engine still started ... this was strange ... not like what was described in the manual at all.
So I thought that maybe I was alright and it would just keep starting from now on.

At that point I left the car for a while and went to do other things eventually coming back to it a couple of hours later when I wanted to shift it in the driveway.
I turned the key ... and nothing ... ah crap!!

This is where it gets interesting ...
Instead of the no crank no fuel pump prime like I would get with the original BEM ... this time I was getting fuel pump prime but no crank ... very strange ...

It was obvious that the car would not start again ... by now it was getting late in the day and I had to move it ... so opted to swap the BEM's and put the original one back in.

Once swapped the car started fine with the original BEM ... well until the next time it decides to play up obviously ...
Also once I had the original BEM out I pulled it apart and looked at all the soldering and again they all looked fine too.
So I really don't know what to do next ...

Why would the security codes not have downloaded properly into the replacement BEM?

Does that sometimes happen that the codes don't download properly the first time and might do so on subsequest attempts?

Why does the replacement BEM allow the fuel pump to prime but not crank where the original will not allow either?

Is there a possibility that I have a problem with the electronic ignition lock rather than the BEM?

Any help or advise would be much appreciated ... I just need a car that starts reliably.
Apologies for the long winded post ... but thought it would be best to give as much detail as possible.

Cheers ...

Alan.

Last edited by Sierra on Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Have you sorted problem ?

verify EF - EL -auto -manual etc.?

does armed code flash when key is off ?

when you first turn ignition on does smartlock light flash a code at all before turning on immobilised warning or just go out ?

does smartlock light go out with Replacement BEM fitted -
if so turn key on and bridge starter relay (back relay near battery inner gaurd)- (contact circuits 30 & 87), as BEM fault was common across starter relay inside BEM -

At this stage it is either:-
a second crook BEM, or,
a crook ignition switch assembly, or,
wiring.

The failure in "learning" would not point at the BEM internal relay being at issue.

When the learning failed, or under normal failure condition, the Smartlock lamp should have flashed out a fault code, or codes.
That code(s) should point to why it failed.
The fault codes are listed on page 15-8-5 of the manual.
The previous page outlines the test procedure.
Did you follow this ? Where the flowcharts of no help ?
What code(s) did you get ?

may not be same ? ....... but partners AU had problems with two major ones being problem starting. one i was pretty sure was the inhibitor switch, but the other left me scratchin me head .... a lot lol. anyway had all the probs fixed [turned out more than i thought ] however i still at times have the no start prob, which i 'think' is the ignition switch. however at the moment i havn't got off me arsse & looked at a spare switch to verify this. at times the key can be turned a bit more to start, but other times key needs to be withdrawn & reinserted to start??

anyway ... maybe you may need to verify that a signal is going thru/from ignition to bem ??

The EF/EL and AU are totally different systems.
Diagnosing EF/EL versus diagnosing AU is totally different as well.
The added difference with AU is that there is a transducer in the key body (that the ignition assembly reads) and diags access/training is via the OBD2 port.
With EF/EL the only diags is via the Smartlock light and training can be performed, as Sierra described (that method will not work on AU).

i know that ...

Sorry, not many seem to (I was not in a*** mode).
Nice not to be alone

don't worry .... wasn't sure re EF/EL having signal from switch tho

Thank you for your replies everyone ...




Yes and no ...

Yes ... the car has now started reliably every single time since I shuffled between the two BEM's over a week ago.

No ... I have no idea what the actual root cause of the problem was or why it has now worked reliably ever since.

It's an EF Manual

Yes the armed/listening code flashed as normal with key out on both BEM's

When swapped to the replacement BEM (prior to the learning process) the expected fault code 3 flashed.

It was not a starter relay problem in this case.





That's where my thoughts were heading ... a problem with the ignition switch assembly ...

To be honest after the learning process failed I was rather frustrated at the whole scenario so I didn't pay too much attention to the smartlock LED for any subsequest code flash ...
I was more concerned about replacing the original BEM back in and hoping it would start so that I could get to work the following morning ...

Yes I did read page 15-8-5 of the manual ... but did not try the "Diagnosis and Testing" from the previous page ... if I read it correctly I would need specific test equipment which I don't have.

Unfortunately I only got the manual out to read the BEM replacement process ...
In hindsight I should have started reading the manual earlier and try to interpret the fault codes that smartlock was flashing with the original BEM while it was playing up.
A number of times it did flash error codes on start up with the LED staying on.
And if I'm not mistaken at one stage it flashed up error code 8 ... I'm pretty sure I counted 8 quick flashes in a row x 3 ...

Subsequestly no fault codes have been displayed since ...





How would I do that though ... to confirm the BEM is getting the correct signal from the electronics of the ignition switch?



As much as it annoys me not knowing what the actual problem was ... as I really didn't do anything to fix it other them disassemble the original BEM plasic casing to inspect the soldering on the PCB which looked fine and reassembled it again.

I don't want to touch anything now as it is working reliably for the moment.
This last week has seen all types of weather ... hot/cold/wet etc and it has started every time ... so the last thing I want to do now is touch anything while its working

A little bit of an update.

Things had been going really well and the car had been starting reliably for a number of weeks ... then one day after work on a hot sunny day ... turn the key and nothing ...

Tried turning the key and removing/replacing the key a couple of times and eventually it started and susequesnt restarts worked fine to.

Again it started reliably for a number of days before having another "glitch".

Last week it had another glitch and I remembered to check the smartlock error code this time and it flashed up error code 4.
Error code 4 is not related to the BEM ... it's related to the electronics in the ignition switch itself.

The workshop manual lists the following 3 fault options for error code 4

1) Electronic Lock Assembly to BEM connector open.
2) Electronic Lock Assembly I/O circuit open.
3) Electronic Lock Assembly power supply circuit open.

And thinking back now when I was having all my dramas and had the BEM out and pulled apart etc ... one of the codes that smartlock flashed was error code 8 ... which again relates to the ignition lock.

Error code 8 - Lock Data Error (All Codes Incorrect)

And that would also make sense as to why the system failed to "learn" the replacement BEM when I tried the swap a while ago if the lock itself is faulty.

Again during this week on another warm day after work ... turn the key and nothing ...
This time I tried to wiggle the ignition barrel and switch assy ... and as soon as I did that it started.

Looks like I have found the source of all my problems ... a faulty ignition switch.



The next question ... how difficult is it to replace the faulty electronics inside the ignition switch?

Can it be replaced ... or does the whole assy, barrel included have to be replaced?

And that looks like a pain as it's all rivetted ...

have you checked the neutral start switch?

It's a manual ...

The fault is with the electronics module of the ignition switch and it will need to be replaced.

Was hoping someone may have some experience on the best way of doing that.
Can the electronics module be replaced independantly of the ignition lock/barrel assy ... or does everything have to swapped over and a locksmith re-key the barrel assy?

Manual's have a neutral switch as well.

The ignition/steering lock is not rivited, it is fitted with shear bolts. To remove these you need to use a sharp centre punch and tap them around untill they loosen and then remove them. Replacement is simple using standard bolts.

The ignition (lock) barrel (if in good condition) can be swapped over into the new steering lock.
1) Insert the ignition key and turn the key to acc position.
2) Insert a 3mm pin/drill into the hole in the ignition lock assembly a depress the locking latch. You can now pull the cylinder out.

Install new Barrel.
1) Insert the ignition key and turn the key to acc position.
2) Insert the lock into the housing untill it clicks into position.
3) Remove key.

Last edited by SWC on Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

Thanks SWC ... thats just what I was after ... appreciate your input.

Another update and the saga continues ...

The thing that I needed to be mindfull as I make changes to fix this intermittent starting probem is that the car is my daily driver so I cant afford to do anything that would completely stop it from starting.

To that end I picked up a replacement ignition lock assy during the week and tested it out today.

The last time that I tried to run the learning procedure between the original ignition switch and a replacement BEM and the learning process failed.

At that point I was pretty confident that the ignition switch may have been the problem based on the smartlock codes that were being displayed.

So now I have a replacement ignition switch which I mated with the replacemnt BEM and ran the learning process again.
To my dismay once again the learning process failed.

So now I have a dilemma ... do I try and mate the replacement ignition switch with the original BEM?

What happens if the learning process fails again? ... would the original BEM and the original ignition switch still communicate?
If not I would be screwed as I would not be able to start the car at all ... so I erred on the side of caution and did not try mating the replacement ignition switch with the original BEM for now.

So were to now?

I guess my first question is ... if a BEM is working with a particular ignition switch ... then a different ingition switch is connected and the learning process fails ... does it mean the BEM can no longer conmmunicate with the original ignition switch?
Or does a learning failure mean that no changes are made to the BEM?

My next question ... what causes BEM to Ignition switch learning failures?
And how do you fix these failures?

The factory workshop manual does not say how to fix the learning errors or what to do about them.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

PS - I've just bought another BEM ... just in case...

Cheers,

Alan.