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| Benny D |
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hey guys just puttin it out there i was lookin at a fg xr6 the other day and i noticed the while inlet manifold right up to the head was made of plastic?..
also looking at the new territory with the same motor has now only got a single thermo fan instead of the twins from the ef - ba/f? and the radiator core must have been at most 10mm thick?.. i mean sure technilogy and R&D means they have better ways of doing things but this looks like it wont last far past its warranty date? is it just me that likes to see things made properly or am i just stuck on the x-series train of thought?
_________________ BA XT V8. Ice Mint. 18" Speedys. XR6T LSD. Full Pacemaker twin 2 1/2inch Stainless Steel system. Custom CAI. Black XR interior with white trimming. Powerbond underdrive kit 25%. |
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| Mont5.0 |
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nothing is built to last anymore- if it was, fraud would be out of business!
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| Papa Smurf |
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Mont5.0 wrote: nothing is built to last anymore- if it was, fraud would be out of business! And so would holden and toyota and all the other manufacturers. The R&D finds better ways to do things. The thinner radiator and the plastic manifold all go to make the vehicle lighter. Always amazes me that people who are NOT engineers know so much about manufacturing cars? |
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| Mont5.0 |
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it doesn't take an engineer to work out a cast manifold would outlast a plastic one.
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| Papa Smurf |
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Well, maybe it does? If you have no training in such things how would you know?
And, I wish you blokes would stop using the "fraud" put down. I work for a FORD dealer and I am sick of hearing the same old tired rubbish by people who either DON'T work in the trade or who have NFI. Ford are NO worse than the other makes and no worse than crummy electricians or Plumbing people or etc etc etc. TV's and Washing machines and Fridges are made to a price and don't last long either. |
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| 67RCE |
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Papa Smurf wrote: Well, maybe it does? If you have no training in such things how would you know? And, I wish you blokes would stop using the "fraud" put down. I work for a FORD dealer and I am sick of hearing the same old tired rubbish by people who either DON'T work in the trade or who have NFI. Ford are NO worse than the other makes and no worse than crummy electricians or Plumbing people or etc etc etc. TV's and Washing machines and Fridges are made to a price and don't last long either. It's called a service life. Things are designed to last for a certain amount of time, not forever!
_________________ ILL60 - EF XR8, Sunroof, Ticky Kit, 19x8.5/19x11 TE37's, 347, AFr185's, TFS BoxRcustom converter, Hurst Quarterstick, huge billet cam. |
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| JOSE |
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all mass produced items are made with a service life in mind, they are meant to work very well up to a certain point then s**t themselves bigtime so people have to go buy a new one. ever noticed how appliances from the 50's still work ok 60 years later yet ones made 5-10 years ago seem to have trouble not f**k up? (also notice how expensive stuff was back then compared to now) half the price half the quality (excluding general advancements in materials and manufacturing) if stuff was made as well as 50 years ago with modern tech and materials the service lifes would be amazing
_________________ Because i can. |
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| tickford_6 |
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Posts: 6449 Joined: 11th Nov 2004 |
I'm some one with more then a few years repairing cars.
There is not one car that uses a plastic intake manifold that doesn't have problems with it. They heat cycle enough times and they will warp and leak. We've been dealing with it for years. Manufacturers will continue to use them as they are cheap to make and it's easier to build complex shapes and internal mechanisms. Yes we are going to have problems with them, both with air leaks and the failures of the mechanisms. Only time is going to tell how long they last. But given the age the other Fords have been when the problems started, I'd say 5 to 7 years old and the problems will start and a few cars will go sooner then that. |
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| phongus |
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If carbon fibre was created today (so unknown material) and was used for car body work...I bet you that you will say it is s**t and not built to last because it looks like plastic, but in fact it is strong, light weight, can last longer than steel and pretty much out performs anything of the same size (besides it being brittle).
So now, do you know what the intake is made off, have any of the intakes being reported for failure, does it have the same strength as a cast steel intake, how much does it weigh in comparison etc. From the tests I have seen...this composite stuff used in cars are pretty damn strong. No warping or cracking at high temperatures and overall strength is great for the weight and size of it. If you built one of the same size out of cast steel, it will be damn heavier. Yes it looks cheap and plastic like compared to the well finished steel intakes of previous models, but that doesn't make it weaker than a steel equivalent or won't last...I can assure you that your diff or transmission will have issues before your intake. It's like saying that the outer skin of an Airbus A380 is s**t because it is made off a composition of fibreglass and aluminium.
_________________ phongus = Post whore 2006 |
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| tickford_6 |
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Posts: 6449 Joined: 11th Nov 2004 |
phongus wrote: If carbon fibre was created today (so unknown material) and was used for car body work...I bet you that you will say it is s**t and not built to last because it looks like plastic, but in fact it is strong, light weight, can last longer than steel and pretty much out performs anything of the same size (besides it being brittle). So now, do you know what the intake is made off, have any of the intakes being reported for failure, does it have the same strength as a cast steel intake, how much does it weigh in comparison etc. From the tests I have seen...this composite stuff used in cars are pretty damn strong. No warping or cracking at high temperatures and overall strength is great for the weight and size of it. If you built one of the same size out of cast steel, it will be damn heavier. Yes it looks cheap and plastic like compared to the well finished steel intakes of previous models, but that doesn't make it weaker than a steel equivalent or won't last...I can assure you that your diff or transmission will have issues before your intake. It's like saying that the outer skin of an Airbus A380 is s**t because it is made off a composition of fibreglass and aluminium. tell me this again in say 6 years. |
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| phongus |
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tickford_6 wrote: phongus wrote: If carbon fibre was created today (so unknown material) and was used for car body work...I bet you that you will say it is s**t and not built to last because it looks like plastic, but in fact it is strong, light weight, can last longer than steel and pretty much out performs anything of the same size (besides it being brittle). So now, do you know what the intake is made off, have any of the intakes being reported for failure, does it have the same strength as a cast steel intake, how much does it weigh in comparison etc. From the tests I have seen...this composite stuff used in cars are pretty damn strong. No warping or cracking at high temperatures and overall strength is great for the weight and size of it. If you built one of the same size out of cast steel, it will be damn heavier. Yes it looks cheap and plastic like compared to the well finished steel intakes of previous models, but that doesn't make it weaker than a steel equivalent or won't last...I can assure you that your diff or transmission will have issues before your intake. It's like saying that the outer skin of an Airbus A380 is s**t because it is made off a composition of fibreglass and aluminium. tell me this again in say 6 years. Which part? the diff and transmission breaking before the intake? or just the intake breaking in the first place? I am pretty sure the intake will last until the car is upgraded...from what I have seen, some people don't keep a car for more than 5 years. EDIT: Also if an Airbus A380 fuselage disintegrates mid flight in the next couple of years...I will shut up about composite material.
_________________ phongus = Post whore 2006 |
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| frankieh |
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Depends on the tech... the new dreamliner Boeing is supposed to be nearly entirely made of composite materials.. as a result it's faster, lighter, cheaper to run and greener for the environment.
They actually use a lot of carbon re-enforced plastic in the plane, and they are made to last 30 years. read for yourself: http://www.designnews.com/document.asp?doc_id=226256 once upon a time plastic bumpers were given the same rundown.. and now I dare you to find me a modern car without them.. the tech got good enough. Until we know what type of plastic, how it's shaped, how it's sealed.. we won't know if it's a good idea or not. As for the thermo's.. well if it's a fully speed variable fan unlike the EF-EL-AU-BA etc ones. why are two better than one big one? The radiator is a moot point as it's not likely to get that old before dying anyway.. You use the radiator that can keep the engine in the desired heat range in the most extreme conditions you designed the car for.. if it does that than the size/shape doesn't matter. |
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| MAD |
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BMW have been using plastic manifolds since early 90's.
Dad's E34 is still going fine, the manifold hasnt imploded. |
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| bry40l |
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youd think eventually the heat will make its mark on the plastic making it brittle or out of shape but only time will tell,who knows it mite outlast the car and where b**ch about nothing lol
_________________ BF XR6 |
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| MAD |
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All I can add to this is "Plastics aint plastics"
No Doubt you have seen how EF/L headlights go yellow over time, but the headlight protectors dont. We're not talking about the same stuff used to make model aeroplanes, or coke bottles here. |
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