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| data_mine |
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ashbrisau wrote: tickford_6 wrote: ashbrisau wrote: What parts a wrong? I did actually consider putting my 308 in the AU. But i want a 6 cylinder in this car. If we cant get the 4ltr reving to 7000RPM i'm chucking the thing out. My cast iron v8 which is basicly an engine designed 100 years ago that uses push rods to operate the valves can rev to 7000RPM all day long reliably and short stints upto 8000RPM and this motor cant and its built in the 21st century.  I just got dad some maccas and on the way back the AU did over 80kmh in first gear, i have an auto. That will make the diff ratio about 3.08/1 no? The valve train would easily deal with revs, it's the long stroke with comparatively short rods thats the problem, along with the heads simply not flowing enough air to make usable power at that RPM, even when ported. and sheet metal manifolds...... you need to stop reading street commodores. I beam vs. H beam has been done to death. If you want to built a high reving N/A engine you dont want the extra weight of a H beam and at those revs a cast piston will not live. As far as ARP doing head and main studs for this engine... you have to be joking. NO ONE makes them for this engine. ACL don't do a 30cc dish for this engine as that would give you compression somewhere in the 7:1 range, About the only thing you got right was the turboing this engine is a good idea. It wasn't the best idea to come on here and start lecturing every one on how to make power with an engine we have all been dealing with years yet you obviously know nothing about. This is the reason i don't join forums... Ok I am trying to help someone intrested in knowing how engines operate. I am generalising/ I will be wrong about the minor details like what size cc dish ACL do in their pistons. They sdo an 11cc dish, My mistake. The reason i guess? I don't want to spend ages digging around for the specifics cuz i don't have time to debabte on forums. "The valve train would easily deal with revs, it's the long stroke with comparatively short rods thats the problem, along with the heads simply not flowing enough air to make usable power at that RPM, even when ported. " Thats why yu use better rods, ballancing bearings etc. And forced induction. You need boost to go mate! "and sheet metal manifolds...... you need to stop reading street commodores" sounds yo me that your trying to tweak my nerves? What do you call a custom plennum? "I beam vs. H beam has been done to death. If you want to built a high reving N/A engine you dont want the extra weight of a H beam and at those revs a cast piston will not live." No s***? maybe thats why you spend the cash and get the good s**t? "As far as ARP doing head and main studs for this engine... you have to be joking. NO ONE makes them for this engine" ou need to machine bosses in most cases to accept the studs etc. But i remember Jim Mock listing some fasteners that are for this engine. I cnbf to find it now tho. I will let you know when i come acros it again. This is the important area on keeping motors together. You lot best find solutions  Ford standard compression ratios are too high for high boost and advanced ignition timing, Your 308 may rev well, that'd be because it's got a more 'square' bore/stroke ratio. The I6 has a long stroke compared to the bore. This results in good torque, but doesn't rev well. It's a fundamental design feature/flaw (depending which way you look at it). If you want your AU to move quicker, cam it, free up the intake pipework (the plenum is fine - no one makes custom ones for non-turbo applications) add extractors and exhaust. If you want more mumbo, giggle gas or forced induction is the go. I had my old EL hybrid engine (which was essentially an AU I6) spinning to 6500rpm, even with a big cam and all the other regular n/a mods, it peaked at 6200 rpm. I suggest to stop having people 'attacking' your ideas, is to do some research first. This stuff has been covered again and again in this forum already. Then maybe you won't look like an idiot when you start talking about stuff that doesn't exist or won't work.
_________________ 1998 DL LTD in Sparkling Burgundy, daily, 302W, stereo, slow |
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| TROYMAN |
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ashbrisau wrote: Ford standard compression ratios are too high for high boost and advanced ignition timing, i dont know about that... ive been running 12psi for nearly 2 years now with the std au engines 9.6:1 compression, |
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| macxr8 |
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Age: 55 Posts: 451 Joined: 3rd Jan 2005 Ride: AU XR6 with BF Turbo engine Location: Sydney |
just for interests sake, my AU engine has often seen 7000 rpm on LPG. The head was ported and flowed around 380 hp from memory. All the valves, springs, guides collets retainers etc were changed to aftermarket, bigger stainless steel, 11/32 stem, single collet groove valves were used as the std 7mm werent up to the task. Running a CMS stg 3 cam. Lukey extractors.
bottom end was rebuilt, ACL flat top cast pistons, ARP rod bolts fitted with some mucking around with the rods. 11.2:1 comp, all balanced. The ECU is untuned at this stage, makes 138kw, but am hoping for better results when its tuned (extractors glow red on the dyno, indicating fuel or timing. Given the AFR's were ok am leaning towards timing) Car is a big of a pig down low, but hit 25500 and it goes like a scalded cat. its def not making power above 6000 but sounds nice
_________________ RIP |
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| ashbrisau |
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data_mine wrote: I suggest to stop having people 'attacking' your ideas, is to do some research first. This stuff has been covered again and again in this forum already. Then maybe you won't look like an idiot when you start talking about stuff that doesn't exist or won't work. I never claimed to be an expert on ford engines. But i know how engines in general work. Right off the charts. Now i have a ford i'm sussing it all out. Basicly what you are saying, and i think maybe answering the origanal question of can a l6 rev. And that is no it is a boat anchor that is doomed to stay under 7000rpm? What about the twin cam head, does that rev better than a washing machine? If you guys want to see what high boost is 12psi will look pretty low hey. Double that and we will talk about compression ratio and ignition timiming being too high. and if you want to talk about nitro and not retarding your ignition timing watch out. Oh and i got confused earlier. I will quote Geoff Carter from Snort Performance: "Weare getting really good results from using a standard ACL race series engine rebuild kit in these engines (l6). Rather than a forged style piston, the ACL race series is a high silicon content hypereutectic cast piston which is much stronger than a stoker. They can be ordered with a 20cc dish in the piston top which reduces compression a little and makes the engine capable of withstanding higher boost pressure. We have shown on our on our customer cars that the ACL race series piston with shotpeened rods is good for 370rwkw at upto 15psi of boost pressure. If you want to go beyond that we recommend forged BA style pistons with thicker ring lands and aftermarket Carillo rods."> Don't need to be so rude yall
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| ashbrisau |
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TROYMAN wrote: ashbrisau wrote: Ford standard compression ratios are too high for high boost and advanced ignition timing, i dont know about that... ive been running 12psi for nearly 2 years now with the std au engines 9.6:1 compression, 12 is decent for the street for sure boss! But what if you tried to pump 28psi? |
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| ashbrisau |
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macxr8 wrote: just for interests sake, my AU engine has often seen 7000 rpm on LPG. The head was ported and flowed around 380 hp from memory. All the valves, springs, guides collets retainers etc were changed to aftermarket, bigger stainless steel, 11/32 stem, single collet groove valves were used as the std 7mm werent up to the task. Running a CMS stg 3 cam. Lukey extractors. bottom end was rebuilt, ACL flat top cast pistons, ARP rod bolts fitted with some mucking around with the rods. 11.2:1 comp, all balanced. The ECU is untuned at this stage, makes 138kw, but am hoping for better results when its tuned (extractors glow red on the dyno, indicating fuel or timing. Given the AFR's were ok am leaning towards timing) Car is a big of a pig down low, but hit 25500 and it goes like a scalded cat. its def not making power above 6000 but sounds nice Nice one! I had 3.08/1 diff ratio in my old car and it was a bit of a pig off the line. Did almost 90kmh in first gear. Changed it to a 3.55/1 with a mini spool and it snaps necks and tops out just under 70 in first @ 5000RPM. A plan i have with my current car. |
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| ashbrisau |
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Quote: no one makes custom ones for non-turbo I never sugested anyone with an asperated engine make a custom plennum. I sugested they make one for a turbo application. And as for ppl who make them its a piece os cake. I make them. Apparently for atmo engines the prgressive manifold already on is the go. And You can fit ARP fasteners in almost anything. Did the EA have a shorter stroke? |
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| ashbrisau |
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I think what the general consensus is on this subject is the engine can rev decent but its going to cost money, time and effort? More than most people are willing to apply.
Maybe the easiest thing to do is keep normal revs and used forced induction and a normal high ratio diff gear to make power and speed. Or changing to a completly diffrent engine all together. Fords seem to like a lot of low down torque from being so damn heavy so if you leave a high ratio diff in your car and sacrifice power down low for power up top without forced induction might not be a good idea. Maybe what can be done is De stroke the engine. I would gladly sacrifice some cubes for a better rev band. My mates 3ltr inline 6 cyl 2JZ with a GT86 turbo, 10 1000cc injectors and about 3 bars of boost revs a hard 8000RPM and makes over 800HP. I would gladly sacrifice a whole litre for 3000RPM! Not that it will happen, 2JZ yamaha designed head is fully HKS camed and ported with twin bump sticks. The l6 wont rev like that even if you did shorten the stroke. But maybe it can be improved.An important question actually.. How many bolts do the main bearing caps have? |
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| TROYMAN |
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ashbrisau wrote: TROYMAN wrote: ashbrisau wrote: Ford standard compression ratios are too high for high boost and advanced ignition timing, i dont know about that... ive been running 12psi for nearly 2 years now with the std au engines 9.6:1 compression, 12 is decent for the street for sure boss! But what if you tried to pump 28psi? @ 28psi?? on a stock engine?? kaboooom..  there are others that run up to 17psi on std engines...depends what the target power is?? and what you want to achieve?? ashbrisau wrote: Did the EA have a shorter stroke? the ea 3.9 has the same stroke as the 4.0l.. but if you can find an early ea 3.2ltr they do have a shorter stroke, but you dont see many of them anymore... |
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| 67RCE |
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In my case, more revs are necessary. The ute currently makes peak power at 5700rpm, which is where the rev limiter is set. It has made 40rwkw more with an extra 700rpm, but was held back to keep the rods inside the block. It is going to be getting a built motor and more boost. Why have it held back by the rev limiter? Thats why I'm going to put a built motor in, and go for 7500rpm. The street tune will not see 7500rpm though, it will be limited to about 6500....
_________________ ILL60 - EF XR8, Sunroof, Ticky Kit, 19x8.5/19x11 TE37's, 347, AFr185's, TFS BoxRcustom converter, Hurst Quarterstick, huge billet cam. |
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| tickford_6 |
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Posts: 6449 Joined: 11th Nov 2004 |
ashbrisau wrote: I think what the general consensus is on this subject is the engine can rev decent but its going to cost money, time and effort? More than most people are willing to apply. Maybe the easiest thing to do is keep normal revs and used forced induction and a normal high ratio diff gear to make power and speed. Or changing to a completly diffrent engine all together. Fords seem to like a lot of low down torque from being so damn heavy so if you leave a high ratio diff in your car and sacrifice power down low for power up top without forced induction might not be a good idea. Maybe what can be done is De stroke the engine. I would gladly sacrifice some cubes for a better rev band. My mates 3ltr inline 6 cyl 2JZ with a GT86 turbo, 10 1000cc injectors and about 3 bars of boost revs a hard 8000RPM and makes over 800HP. I would gladly sacrifice a whole litre for 3000RPM! Not that it will happen, 2JZ yamaha designed head is fully HKS camed and ported with twin bump sticks. The l6 wont rev like that even if you did shorten the stroke. But maybe it can be improved.An important question actually.. How many bolts do the main bearing caps have? seriously mate, stop being a tosser |
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| Troy |
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if you think the i6 needs to rev to make big power, your on the wrong forum!
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| skidder |
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The last 2 pages of this just made my day.
If you're a holden guy you may have heard of the LSx series engines...would probably be easier to fit one of these in an AU than a 308 and is definatley the first one you would think someone would consider... 
_________________ EVL098 wrote: Cramping in the hand from having it on your Wang for an excessive period of time is a definate con. Seriously do people google "f**k up modifications for Fords owned by Jews" and get linked straight to this site nowadays? AU,factory fitted tickford kit/IRS, t5,Sports ryder/KYB: gone. |
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| skidder |
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ashbrisau wrote: Apparently for atmo engines the prgressive manifold already on is the go. Did the EA have a shorter stroke? No (maybe for use as a daily driver, but definately not for performance) and no.
_________________ EVL098 wrote: Cramping in the hand from having it on your Wang for an excessive period of time is a definate con. Seriously do people google "f**k up modifications for Fords owned by Jews" and get linked straight to this site nowadays? AU,factory fitted tickford kit/IRS, t5,Sports ryder/KYB: gone. |
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| xcabbi |
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tickford_6 wrote: ashbrisau wrote: I think what the general consensus is on this subject is the engine can rev decent but its going to cost money, time and effort? More than most people are willing to apply. Maybe the easiest thing to do is keep normal revs and used forced induction and a normal high ratio diff gear to make power and speed. Or changing to a completly diffrent engine all together. Fords seem to like a lot of low down torque from being so damn heavy so if you leave a high ratio diff in your car and sacrifice power down low for power up top without forced induction might not be a good idea. Maybe what can be done is De stroke the engine. I would gladly sacrifice some cubes for a better rev band. My mates 3ltr inline 6 cyl 2JZ with a GT86 turbo, 10 1000cc injectors and about 3 bars of boost revs a hard 8000RPM and makes over 800HP. I would gladly sacrifice a whole litre for 3000RPM! Not that it will happen, 2JZ yamaha designed head is fully HKS camed and ported with twin bump sticks. The l6 wont rev like that even if you did shorten the stroke. But maybe it can be improved.An important question actually.. How many bolts do the main bearing caps have? seriously mate, stop being a tosser Oh boy, definite magazine mechanic material. Of course a 2jz has twin cams. Are you trying to make it sound like it got converted to twin cams. That post reeks of fail. Not knowing how many bolts our main caps have takes the cake. If you want to give advice here you have to be very specific. Oh and it helps if you know what you are talking about. |
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