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| Saltez! |
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Hi Guys
I bought a wade 1673 regrind off one of the members on here about 6 months ago and during the past week I have been searching the crap out of fordmods to make sure I am fully prepared for the install. Most of it seems fairly easy with the important things being: 1. Make sure you take out the chain tensioner or at least release it or you will break your chain guides or even worse screw your aux shaft 2. Bleed your lifters!! 3. Reset the tension on the chain by inserting the tensioner in the locked postions then screw in the outer bolt and using a 3mm allen key and 10mm pipe, unlock it. I have read through fordmods that if you don't bleed your lifters then you can possibly snap or break arms on your rocker gear so they need to be bled. Is this correct? So my question is If I am bleeding my lifters out of the rocker arm when I put the extra shim in and then putting them back dry in their fully collapsed position with NO RETAINERS, will they fall out of the rocker gear on start up before they have a chance to gain oil pressure and pump up???? I just really don't want any lifters in my oil galleries lol Obviously with no retainers I am going to be using the tape method to hold them in during the install My Car is a ford XG ute 1991 running the EB style 4 litre. Also I went and got some shims from the wreckers out of the rocker gear EB and they were in there pretty tight and i had to use a bolt and a hammer to knock them out fully cause they pretty much all got jammed. This resulted in the bore of the rocker gear getting damaged which would be bad news if it happens on my rocker gear. My other questionis will these shims just drop in nicely without any force once I have got my lifters out of the rocker gear? No one mentions any difficulties with this during the cam install so i was just wondering if anyone had to force them in or force them out like I had too. I really appreciate your help guys, with these questions answered I will be pretty confident to do this cam install. I have read lots of horror stories on here but I am pretty sure if I do those 3 points I mentioned along with the normal stuff, it will work out okay.
_________________ XG Ute. BBM conversion, EL ECU + J3 Chip, 3" Stainless Steel Intake Pipe, K&N Pod Filter, Wade 1673 Camshaft, Pacemaker extractors, 2.5 Inch Hi-Flow Cat, 2.5 Inch exhaust, Cab Extension, 18" FG GT Rims, resprayed in blueprint. |
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| the sam |
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Cant really help out on the shim side of things as im not too sure on the different sizes for different models and what not.
When i did my cam swap i didnt bother with the tensioner or anything like that. Just snaptied my chain to the cam sprocket and held it while i switched cams. took about 5 mins. The longest part was getting the rocker gear off, putting the new shims in, taping them back up and doing up the eleventy billion f**k bolts that hold the rocker gear down. Didnt even bleed my lifters. Been 30,000km since i chucked in my 1673 and shes all sweet.
_________________ LOW, LOUD AND LUMPY |
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| Saltez! |
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thanks for the replay the sam
Yeah I am sure heaps of people do the exact same thing as what you have done. I am tempted to do the same! However I have read some absolute horror stories of bottom guides snapping and aux shafts screwing up from too much tension so I just wanna make sure that doesn't happen to me. My nephew is a qualified mechanic and he just takes off the camshaft and lets it drop, then puts it back on *cringes* and he said it has always been fine for him. However this means that there is now to much tension on the guide and this is where damage can occur. But yeah I feel confident with the tension side of things. I just wanted to know about the lifters. Should i bleed them dry and then put the in the rocker gear in their most compressed position with no retainers? Or because they have no retainers and are not pumped up could they misalign on the valve springs or even fall out causing massive damage and ending up in my sump? Do all you guys out there bleed the lifters dry or just shove them back in and hope for the best?
_________________ XG Ute. BBM conversion, EL ECU + J3 Chip, 3" Stainless Steel Intake Pipe, K&N Pod Filter, Wade 1673 Camshaft, Pacemaker extractors, 2.5 Inch Hi-Flow Cat, 2.5 Inch exhaust, Cab Extension, 18" FG GT Rims, resprayed in blueprint. |
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| EFFUTURA4.05SP |
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I believe the earlier model OHC 4 litre sixes have larger HLAs so I would assume larger Shims (13mm vs 11mm).
The Shims should drop into the bores in the rocker arms with little to no force. They will not fall out once the rocker assy is installed as the cam will hold the arms down, they will want to fall out while you are installing though (I taped mine to hold them in and removed the tape before doing up the bolts.
_________________ 1996 EF Futura factory manual |
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| EFFUTURA4.05SP |
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Oh, the chain tentioner is a piece of piss. When you relieve the tention pull it out and have a play with it and get a feel for how it works and put a ne O-ring on and some Permatex thread sealer on the retainer (works great)
Attachment: SANY0208.JPG [ 120 KiB | Viewed 291 times ]
_________________ 1996 EF Futura factory manual |
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| Saltez! |
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Ahh k cool, I wasn't sure. I was confident to put the lifters back in fully primed because they wouldn't fall out for sure. I just wasn't sure if I could put them out bled and in their fully compressed position because don't them lifters expand so that there is no gap between the rocker arm and the valve spring?
I just had visions of them rattling out of the small gap distance due to them being in their smallest position. I guess this will all make sense when I do it on the weekend. I just like to be prepared. My engine has only done 60,000km so I would be p****d if I screwed it up lol. I'll let u know how I go on the weekend anyways lol Hopefully all goes well 
_________________ XG Ute. BBM conversion, EL ECU + J3 Chip, 3" Stainless Steel Intake Pipe, K&N Pod Filter, Wade 1673 Camshaft, Pacemaker extractors, 2.5 Inch Hi-Flow Cat, 2.5 Inch exhaust, Cab Extension, 18" FG GT Rims, resprayed in blueprint. |
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| Saltez! |
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Oh and just another quick one, I have medium strength thread locker for the cam gear bolt. Will that be fine? The strongest one said it needed an oxy and power tools to remove it lol so i was guessing I wasn't meant to use that one?
Can I use plumbers thread tape on the tensioner when I put it back in?? I don't have any permatex sealer? The o ring for the tensioner, I have read on here to go to bunnings and I'll find it there or something? Is that the go? Thanks for you help too. I think the hardest part of this job will be getting the lifters out and the shims in. Apart from that it should all be okay Thanks for the confidence
_________________ XG Ute. BBM conversion, EL ECU + J3 Chip, 3" Stainless Steel Intake Pipe, K&N Pod Filter, Wade 1673 Camshaft, Pacemaker extractors, 2.5 Inch Hi-Flow Cat, 2.5 Inch exhaust, Cab Extension, 18" FG GT Rims, resprayed in blueprint. |
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| EFFUTURA4.05SP |
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I used Permatex Red (high strength) Can be undone as I use it on alot of things and have managed to undo it.
Make sure you torque everything to the correct specs too (gregories manual). I have used plumbers tape before on my old EF's oil pressure switch (still going strong) but that is a sh*tbox but I wouldn't use crap on my current EF, surely you can afford $8 (best to do it right). I dont think your lifters will fall out. If you are worried, manipulate them (push on them with a pin punch through the hole on the rocker) once installed and check if they will fall out. Be carefull they dont fall into the oil drain hole or else they will end up in the sump (not good). Cam installs into the Ford OHC are very basic, sounds to me like you would be quite capable to do so.
_________________ 1996 EF Futura factory manual |
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| EFFUTURA4.05SP |
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Go to Ford spare parts and get the O-ring as they will supply the correct size and type.
Won't cost much.
_________________ 1996 EF Futura factory manual |
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| Saltez! |
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Thanks EFFutura
I have a gregories manual which has all the specs in it and I have a good torque wrench so I should be fine. I just like coming on here cause gregories manual can be a bit vague if u havent done the job before. Once you have then it makes sense Mmmmm so would u recommend going out to purchase the permatex red and not use the mid strength stuff I have? I will definitely get some of that permatex thread sealer thanks for the recommendation.I was even thinking of doing what you said, don't bleed the lifters, throw them back into the rocker gear with the extra shim, bolt them down and then bleed them once everything is all tightened. I really don't want to bleed the lifters at all but I have heard some stories about broken rocker arms so I thought I'd better. Do you think this is a good idea, or just do it out of the car?
_________________ XG Ute. BBM conversion, EL ECU + J3 Chip, 3" Stainless Steel Intake Pipe, K&N Pod Filter, Wade 1673 Camshaft, Pacemaker extractors, 2.5 Inch Hi-Flow Cat, 2.5 Inch exhaust, Cab Extension, 18" FG GT Rims, resprayed in blueprint. |
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| EFFUTURA4.05SP |
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To be honest, I have replaced lifters in EF's 4 times and installed the exact cam you are about to install after rebuilding the engine completely.
Not once have I bled the lifters. They were always new and only once had the nylon retainers (STD GLi cam with retainers). Intalled strait up, from the packet. Some may beg to differ, in the end it is up to you what you do and how you go about it. Just saying, not once have I snapped a rocker arm or buggered anything doing so.
_________________ 1996 EF Futura factory manual |
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| Saltez! |
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Cheers fella.
I'll see how I feel on the day. Hopefully all goes well. I feel I'm well educated now so I should be right!!Thanks again
_________________ XG Ute. BBM conversion, EL ECU + J3 Chip, 3" Stainless Steel Intake Pipe, K&N Pod Filter, Wade 1673 Camshaft, Pacemaker extractors, 2.5 Inch Hi-Flow Cat, 2.5 Inch exhaust, Cab Extension, 18" FG GT Rims, resprayed in blueprint. |
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| Saltez! |
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Just posting back to say the cam install went without a hitch, apart from getting the wrong size shims lol. The cams inn the car now, I started it up and had no chain rattle or lifter tick and it sounds tough!! I have yet to take it out and see what the increase in kw feels like, i have taken it around the block and just nursed it around so that all the lifters and ecu can adjust before i open it up. I did have to bump up my idle screw a bit to stop it stalling but apart from that its wicked!!!
Anyways I thought I would post up a few hints that might save some people time and ensure them that they have done the job properly without guessing e.g have I released the tensioner properly?? 1. Do I have the correct shims? What size shims do you need? That depends on your cam, for my specific cam 1.904mm was taken off it so I needed a 1.9mm shim. See link to find out about the markings on the shim and their sizes. http://www.fordmods.com/ford-4l-and-6-cylinder-f1/shim-thickness-help-please-t112192.html 2. Have I released the tensioner or have I reset the tensioner correctly There has been alot of talk about the tensioner on the forums, just use the search function, what I can tell you though is it is better to take the whole thing out using the ford special tool or the needle nose pliers and a screw driver method. Once its out change the cam and when you put it back in make sure it lines up with the guide. I had a hard time lining mine up until I found out that the tensioner isnt symmetrical. One side is smaller than the other. So have a look down the hole, see which side is smaller and then line it up and it should slot in fine. See the pic below Attachment: tensioner.jpg [ 13.2 KiB | Viewed 2363 times ] Also if you look down into the engine infront of the camshaft sprocket, you can actually just see if the piston thingy is seated correctly on the guide. Its on the left about 1/3 of the way down. Now to check you have released the tensioner I made sure I had all spark plug leads off and the camshaft sprocket and rocker gear all tightened up ready to stick on the rocker cover and complete the job. This is when I fitted the tensioner. I put in the bolt with the hole in the middle and the 2 little holes on either side in first (the retainer), then used the allen key and some fuel hose to push down and turn the piston i inserted before anti clock wise. I heard a click. I wasn't sure at this point if I had released it properly so I screwed in the bolt with the filter and then hit the key for a split second to turn over the engine. (Obviously making sure I had the cable ties off my cam sprocket) Now you can look down the front of the engine and hopefully see that piston that you lined up on the chain guide has about 2-3cm poking out from the hole and pushing against the chain guide. You should also notice that the chain is nice and tight and has no slack in it. This way you know if it is working before you put your engines rocker cover back on and try to listen for chain slap etc. I'd like to say that I am not a mechanic and you use the above information at your discretion, I just found that it worked for me as I like to know I am doing things right before I stick everything completely back together. Also if you guys have any feedback about doing things this way let me know as I would hate to give people the wrong information!!!
_________________ XG Ute. BBM conversion, EL ECU + J3 Chip, 3" Stainless Steel Intake Pipe, K&N Pod Filter, Wade 1673 Camshaft, Pacemaker extractors, 2.5 Inch Hi-Flow Cat, 2.5 Inch exhaust, Cab Extension, 18" FG GT Rims, resprayed in blueprint. |
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| EFFUTURA4.05SP |
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Great stuff Saltez! Good to hear it is all up and running.
_________________ 1996 EF Futura factory manual |
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