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| TheELghia |
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Another audio post sorry...
Just bought and installed a Kenwood 2din head unit. It has 4 rca outputs, 2 for the front and 2 for the rear/subwoofer, which leads me to my problem. I need to choose between the rear speakers and the sub. I obviously want both. So I was thinking; would it work if I attached an RCA plug to the ends of the standard speaker wires and ran that up to the amp? I can't see why that wouldn't work, but I could be wrong. cheers |
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| evxr6 |
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The thing is with the RCA Pre outs on your head unit is that they are low level or unamplified outputs. So it isn't the best solution to plug amplified signal into an amp. Are you going to be running 2 amps? Best soultion would be to use Y cables to split the signal from the front channel to use for front and rear. Like so:
 My head unit is even worse. 1 set of pre outs. Luckily, the 4 channel has a signal out connection. Hope this helps. Evan. |
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| TheELghia |
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{USERNAME} wrote: The thing is with the RCA Pre outs on your head unit is that they are low level or unamplified outputs. So it isn't the best solution to plug amplified signal into an amp. Are you going to be running 2 amps? Best soultion would be to use Y cables to split the signal from the front channel to use for front and rear. Like so: My head unit is even worse. 1 set of pre outs. Luckily, the 4 channel has a signal out connection. Hope this helps. Evan. hey thanks mate. I am only using the factory amplifier for now which is apparently a 200w (some say 150w) 4 channel alpine. So because its not really a high wattage would my idea possibly work or still no? If not, what would be the best setup?: (250w splits at the front, 350w 4 ways rear alpine amp, 50x4w headunit) would i need another amp? and if so which 1? thanks |
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| TimmyA |
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I can't follow what you're trying to do...
The factory amp is 4 channel? What does it run from factory? I'd have thought the factory amp only ran the rear speakers and sub... The RCA outputs on your head unit are low level... They need to be run into an amplifier and then into drivers from there... It doesn't matter a stuff how powerful the amp is... low level is low level and amplified is high level... You'll clip the inputs if you run an amplified signal into an amplifier... The standard for speaker wiring is such that RCA lead normally always designate low level wiring and high level or speaker level wiring is usually always a terminal block you screw wires to or they have a spring loaded button... Your head unit will have 4 amplified channels out which are in the plug with the power and ground and the sorts... You can run these straight to speakers... The 4 RCA plugs are low level and need to be run through an amplifier before being run into speakers... I'd reckon the 4 amps inside the head unit would be better than the 10 year old tiny factory ford amp anyway? I got the impression the ford amp was only ever for the subwoofer because it wasn't until you have had the sub that the amp appeared in the boot... If you're running a sub and the headunit doesn't have sub outputs then you'll need a low pass filter too... Some amps have a switch you can turn it on and off... otherwise you'll need a crossover to trim the high freq's out... If you wont use the amps built into the headunit for your 4 speakers... Then you'll really need some sort of eq for the car... Something to run your front rca's into and then use them to extra the 4 channels out of with your fade and balance... From there into a 4 channel amp and then into your speakers... Really can't make sense of what you're asking though... If it is 4 channels and you're assuming it drives the 4 door/parcel speakers than there is no channel in it for the sub... I must be missing something here... 
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| TheELghia |
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Just did a bit of research and found something called a line out converter, which convert the standard wiring to rca ports. Surely that would work with my idea right?
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| TimmyA |
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what is your idea? I still don't get it...
a line out converter gives you more rca jacks off your high level outputs... but then you still need to amplify 5 channels of sound on this 4 channel amp you have? Use the amps in the head unit to run your speakers and get a monoblock amp for your sub... Are you aiming to win a car audio competition? If your only doing it to gain some clarity I have never seen the point in amping your door speakers... Cheers, Tim
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| TheELghia |
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{USERNAME} wrote: I can't follow what you're trying to do... The factory amp is 4 channel? What does it run from factory? I'd have thought the factory amp only ran the rear speakers and sub... The RCA outputs on your head unit are low level... They need to be run into an amplifier and then into drivers from there... It doesn't matter a stuff how powerful the amp is... low level is low level and amplified is high level... You'll clip the inputs if you run an amplified signal into an amplifier... The standard for speaker wiring is such that RCA lead normally always designate low level wiring and high level or speaker level wiring is usually always a terminal block you screw wires to or they have a spring loaded button... Your head unit will have 4 amplified channels out which are in the plug with the power and ground and the sorts... You can run these straight to speakers... The 4 RCA plugs are low level and need to be run through an amplifier before being run into speakers... I'd reckon the 4 amps inside the head unit would be better than the 10 year old tiny factory ford amp anyway? I got the impression the ford amp was only ever for the subwoofer because it wasn't until you have had the sub that the amp appeared in the boot... If you're running a sub and the headunit doesn't have sub outputs then you'll need a low pass filter too... Some amps have a switch you can turn it on and off... otherwise you'll need a crossover to trim the high freq's out... If you wont use the amps built into the headunit for your 4 speakers... Then you'll really need some sort of eq for the car... Something to run your front rca's into and then use them to extra the 4 channels out of with your fade and balance... From there into a 4 channel amp and then into your speakers... Really can't make sense of what you're asking though... If it is 4 channels and you're assuming it drives the 4 door/parcel speakers than there is no channel in it for the sub... I must be missing something here... s**t didn't see this post! Yes the factory amp is 4 channel and it does run the rear speakers and subwoofer. Its power output I am unsure of, some say 150w others say 200w Ill try and explain it again. At the back of the head unit there is 4 RCA ports, a red and a white for the front speakers, and a red and a white for the rear OR subwoofer. There is no separate set for either and you have to choose in the initial setup on the head unit wether you are amplifing the rear speakers OR the subwoofer. I however want BOTH to be amplified. This is why I asked if I could wire the standard wiring to the amp. I now know it is not possible as the signal is too powerful for the amp. But now with what you have told me all this information, I see that it may be possible if I use a line out converter. I hope this is more understandable. |
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| TheELghia |
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{USERNAME} wrote: what is your idea? I still don't get it... a line out converter gives you more rca jacks off your high level outputs... but then you still need to amplify 5 channels of sound on this 4 channel amp you have? Use the amps in the head unit to run your speakers and get a monoblock amp for your sub... Are you aiming to win a car audio competition? If your only doing it to gain some clarity I have never seen the point in amping your door speakers... Cheers, Tim Sorry, I should have said that all I want to amplify for now is the rear speakers and sub with the factory amplifier. Now everything should make sense. Hopefully |
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| TimmyA |
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OK cool...
So the sub is a dual voice coil to be using two channels? Yep... Got you... So the internal amps in the head unit, you're using the front two to drive the front speakers? so the front rca jacks will be left un-used... How many inputs are on the factory amp? Is there two inputs and then the amp extracts the bass from these two and outputs it on a separate channel for the sub? Or did it require a dedicated input from the headunit for the sub? Because the amp was made Ford, ford could have requested that it only had two inputs and bass extraction built into it... I can't comment... Never seen one... If it does have it built in then you only run you're rears down and the amp does the rest... if not... I don't really like high to low level converters... looking at the circuitry their is nothing to them and it seems to me like they should be more complicated... So this leaves me with doubts as to how good the signal coming out it... Looks to get next to no conditioning... I'd run the two channels to the amp as rear speakers and use the "Y" cables mentioned above into the rear's input on the amp and the other end of the Y into a bass extractor and then into the bass input on the amp... You wont have sub control from your head unit... It'll be done on the bass extractor module... But once you have it set it wont be the sort of thing you're tweaking all the time anyhow... Cheers, Tim
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| TimmyA |
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They're a bit hard to find nowadays... Here is some examples of sub extractors...
{DESCRIPTION} {DESCRIPTION} {DESCRIPTION} And a couple on ebay http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Boss-BX15-Ac ... 43abd71024 http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DALCO-SUB-WO ... 35b2206c9b Looks like you gotta import them is the only downside... I have one similar here that I use on occasion and there were a dime a dozen once... Can't find it anywhere now though... All these have high level inputs (you don't have high level sub outs so you wont use them)... Your Y splitter goes to your low inputs... You set your level and cut off frequency... And you can boost a certain freq range by 12db if need be... Run your outs into the sub and you're off and going... Cheers, Tim
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| TheELghia |
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{USERNAME} wrote: OK cool... So the sub is a dual voice coil to be using two channels? Yep... Got you... So the internal amps in the head unit, you're using the front two to drive the front speakers? so the front rca jacks will be left un-used... How many inputs are on the factory amp? Is there two inputs and then the amp extracts the bass from these two and outputs it on a separate channel for the sub? Or did it require a dedicated input from the headunit for the sub? Because the amp was made Ford, ford could have requested that it only had two inputs and bass extraction built into it... I can't comment... Never seen one... If it does have it built in then you only run you're rears down and the amp does the rest... if not... I don't really like high to low level converters... looking at the circuitry their is nothing to them and it seems to me like they should be more complicated... So this leaves me with doubts as to how good the signal coming out it... Looks to get next to no conditioning... I'd run the two channels to the amp as rear speakers and use the "Y" cables mentioned above into the rear's input on the amp and the other end of the Y into a bass extractor and then into the bass input on the amp... You wont have sub control from your head unit... It'll be done on the bass extractor module... But once you have it set it wont be the sort of thing you're tweaking all the time anyhow... Cheers, Tim The sub is actually the stock 8". I think its actually a mono if that means anything. Yes that is correct, im using the internal amplifier to power the front speakers. The rca ports will not be used. (i may consider using them in the future though) There are 4 rca inputs on the amp, only 3 of them were used in the original sound system (hence the mono sub which was bridged) I don't know what you mean about dedicated but i'd say no, here is a pic of what the plugs and all looks like http://is01.thegumtree.com/image/big/100327477.jpg I don't think it has a built in bass extractor as well. That y cable bass extractor idea sounds good. i might have a crack at that. Would it be possible to have an adjustable bass knob inside the cabbin? |
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| TimmyA |
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As in adjustable freq or volume?
You could mount the bass extractor where you can reach it but as you notice the knobs require you use a screw driver to turn... As with everything it is usually just something you tune to the way you like it to sound and then leave it be... On my sub I used an un-used switch on the dash (the ant height switch) and run the trigger wire in series with it... So if I want to turn the sub off I can flick the switch... This was I can use it while I'm working without flattening the car or if a song comes on and sounds terrible, that is the song itself is way too bass filled then I can just turn it off... Works for me... Again even turning the bass output up on the headunit can be a fiddly pain in the bum task depending on the headunit... I know the jog wheel one mine is... if you are changing something and driving and hit a bump you push the stick in the wrong direction and end up somewhere else in the menu system... Like I said... usually something you tune and leave well enough alone when set... Each to their own though... Other option is if set it cranked on the bass extractor... Mount it inside your dash somewhere and then put a vol control in the rca cable running from it to the amp... Which is as simple as using a log taper potentiometer mounted at your choice of location... They have three tabs... your input hot goes to the wiper contact... output hot off the high end of the winding and just bridge your cold/shield to the other end of the winding without breaking it... Put a plastic or alloy knob on it for looks and that would work too... Cheers, Tim
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| snap0964 |
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I set up a 'budget' system in my wagon - used the 4 x 50w ALDI headunit I had fitted to internal amp power the 4 speakers.
Ran two RCA lines from the headunit rear RCA connections to the factory amp added in the back - plugged them into amp channel 1. Ran a factory 8" sub in a homemade box bridged across channel 1/2. Wasn't bad, but added a 2nd 8" sub in a box bridged across channels 3/4 - this made a significant difference in bass response. There is a plate on the factory amp end with 2 x smally phillips head screws - take these off, and you'll find the gain controls for the two channels/low pass filter selections/fixed variable gain, etc. This setup for me was the simplest in wiring and add ons - I know they're old, but the factory amps still hold their own IMO, for what they are. Obviously the subs are on the same rear fader as the rear speakers (amped and RCA), but adjust the amp settings above to get the best compromise - then use the headunits bass control to vary the subs. If you're just targetting a cheapy setup, might be best to do same - HU powers 4 speakers, factory amp powers 2 x 8" subs. You could put a 2nd 8" sub in the back seat - ford-interior-f14/8-venom-and-lpg-do-go-together-updated-t34440.html .
_________________ 96 XH Longreach 'S': LPG, Alarm, 3.23:1 LSD, Cruise, Trip Comp, ABS, Power Windows, Mid Series Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl |
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| TheELghia |
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Thanks guys! You've been a great help.
{USERNAME} wrote: I set up a 'budget' system in my wagon - used the 4 x 50w ALDI headunit I had fitted to internal amp power the 4 speakers. Ran two RCA lines from the headunit rear RCA connections to the factory amp added in the back - plugged them into amp channel 1. Ran a factory 8" sub in a homemade box bridged across channel 1/2. Wasn't bad, but added a 2nd 8" sub in a box bridged across channels 3/4 - this made a significant difference in bass response. There is a plate on the factory amp end with 2 x smally phillips head screws - take these off, and you'll find the gain controls for the two channels/low pass filter selections/fixed variable gain, etc. This setup for me was the simplest in wiring and add ons - I know they're old, but the factory amps still hold their own IMO, for what they are. Obviously the subs are on the same rear fader as the rear speakers (amped and RCA), but adjust the amp settings above to get the best compromise - then use the headunits bass control to vary the subs. If you're just targetting a cheapy setup, might be best to do same - HU powers 4 speakers, factory amp powers 2 x 8" subs. You could put a 2nd 8" sub in the back seat - ford-interior-f14/8-venom-and-lpg-do-go-together-updated-t34440.html . This is something i actually might try. Decided there was no point trying to amplify the rears with the factory amp when the HU gives about the same power, as timmyA said. All speakers are running off the head unit now. Only the sub is running off the amp. So with all two more blank channels I can do your setup. I'v actually got another factory sitting in the shed too, all i need to do is pop in a new surround on it. I'll leave those gain settings for now as i'm only an amature with car audio, installation is about my limit. With these factory open air subs though, when making a box, does it have to be ported or can it be sealed? Thanks |
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| snap0964 |
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I made mine sealed boxes - due to the smaller volume required. the boxes were actually smashed speaker boxes I reworked. The factory subs are free air type, so you can use either method IIRC.
If the amps are in fact Alpine 3554's, then you will have 150w RMS x 2 (bridged & 4 ohms) for the subs, bit less because they are 6ohms. Depends on the ford part no as to how much adjustment you have. What's your no ?? Should be something like 94DA18T805 xx
_________________ 96 XH Longreach 'S': LPG, Alarm, 3.23:1 LSD, Cruise, Trip Comp, ABS, Power Windows, Mid Series Dome Lt, Climate Ctrl |
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