Try using the megs Gold Class wash and conditioner (i never use car wash soaps etc), then insted of using a chamois use a MF drying towel. Then before applying a wax, use a polish like Autoglyms super resin polish. Has only a slight bit of cutting agent to it, and does give a nice result.. You just gotta be quick when applying as it becomes alot harder to wiper off by hand when it sets.

And with that you might find that you have less scratches in the clear.

G'day Baboon, cheers for keeping my thread alive with new posts, it got very quiet in here
Yes I agree about car wash soaps that those places use, it seems like they are over concentrated or just ultra sudsy as it takes alot of water to get it all off the car

The warm chamois idea sounds good, chamois can marr the finish as can MF drying towels if they are not used properly or washed incorrectly before use

The NXT tech wax like many consumer products contains short term fillers to hide the swirls and marring, you'll find that after NXT dies out in a few months that all those marks come back
It's good that your experimenting with many different methods,

Make sure to clay the paint thoroughly (1 to 2 hours is good) before polishing and any time in the future that you notice the paint not feeling like glass or silk

Perhaps you could upload a photo on here for us to see the vehicle and the results so far (I love pics)

I agree with you XRFan101, I'll get some of that shampoo and try it next time!

At the car wash I even made an effort to soap and rinse as quickly as possible to prevent drying but it still seems that the soaps are high in concentration and need a lot of effort to remove. Its a shame they dont allow a nozzle free hose down of the cars, I much prefer running water straight out of the hose without any restrictions. It flows the soap, dirt, oils off the surface better.

I always had a soft spot for chamois, its hard to move away from them. I fold them in half then in half again and wipe the wet surface with the leading edge then as I go right to left I curl the chamois up so the surface only comes in contact with a clean part of the chamois. I often find after the coin op washes that the chamois still lifts fine dirt particles off the washed car. Its as if the soap has lifted the dirt but hasnt had time to carry the dirt off the car before it dries. I take care not to wipe the car with a dirty black part of the chamois as it could scratch/marr the paint clear coat. After one quarter of the chamois is full of dirt I turn the chamois over to a clean surface then repeat with a different part of the panel. Once the panel is done I dip the chamois into a bucket of warm clean water and agitate with my hands to get as much dirt as possible off. I then wring out the chamois then repeat wipe down with another panel.

Before I applied the wax I didnt have any clay bar but the surface looked clean so I began waxing. However when using the back of my finger across the paint surface I did notice it wasnt silky smooth. It felt smooth for most parts but you could really notice fine dirt lumps in the paint. I tried wiping it down with some microfiber cloth and I could even feel some resistance in the wiping action through the microfiber. I'll make note of this next time and compare with a claybarred surface.

After waxing and buffing one panel I did notice the paint looking a darker blue then what it was without wax. However there were still swirl marks and scratches and I could really see the surface like an orange peel surface, not flat and smooth, but bumpy. Didnt feel bumpy but looked it. Another thing to remember.

My friend and I tried to catch some sunlight to really see the swirls but the weather down here in geelong at the moment is very over cast and hard to get a break. With low light it looks very glossy, but I did remember seeing the bonnet one day with full sunlight and it was swirlled to the buggery. So no luck with the sun coming out so we finished off the waxing.

The whole car looked better then when it was washed but It just lacked something, I dont know what it was but it looked kind of dull. Didnt have that jump out and smack you in the eyes shine. So more experimenting to go.

Oh by the way the car isnt really garaged so it gets exposed to the environment a lot. I didnt get photos of it after it was done, and even worse the misses, bub and I went for a drive to olinda and it rained all the way there. I will give it a wipe down and take some pictures of the progress.

Oh I found some pics of it just after I bought the car. It had a wash and a chamois down. My bro took the pics and its had some light room effects added so it actually looks a bit better then it really does.

BA wagon 1
BA wagon 2
BA wagon 3
BA wagon 4

Great information sir, you will definately notice claying vs just waxing
I concur about a nozzle free rinse down, it's the best rinse method

Nice Job there Baboon I wish my Lucifa looked as good.

Matt, is always good to see you answering posts here, I am learning so much from ALL of you.
I have been using a car wash called Trueseal TruKleen Maintenance Shampoo and Conditioner for the last 2 washes and it doesn't leave streaks all over but, the painwork on Lucifa is still less than acceptable

We keep Autoglym products and I am not THAT sold on it's efficiency.

I looked at Supercheap yesterday and there are SO many different products that say pretty much the same thing and I just don't want to wast any MORE $$$ on useless s**t. Meguiars polish is so far about the best I have tried. I am using these at present:
and

While I was there I also came across the Mother's 3 step products. Should I give these a try? and, should I also use Mother's Clay Bar treatment? Like I told you Matt, I am a babe in the woods when it comes to this stuff.

Do I go these three?



OR, do I go this one:



and use this too.

Hey George,

Firstly, my opinion on these products
Meguiars Color X And Deep Crystal

Deep crystal is to me a superior product to the color x, I used this twenty years ago on my first car and it was a deep wet bright white afterwards

The Mothers system is nice as are all the products bought off the shelf, however still no comparison for what I am using.

The reason these won't achieve the results you want is because none of those products are able to correct the paint ie: abrasively remove the swirls, scratches, marring and any other defects in the paint

Paint that has these defects actually refracts light rather than reflecting it so your car does not have very good clarity or real depth
Once these defects are all gone, the paint transforms from just coloured steel into looking like a sheet of glass

True colour shade, wetness, depth and clarity are achieved by a process of abrasive and non abrasive products.
Whilst you can use Glare products that fill for a very long time, the defects in the paint, it's better to remove them than hide them and use Glare products afterwards.

I honestly believe that you should try this process by hand or machine.

Wax free wash (hand wash not at self serve coin op)
Clay block with 3M or Bilt Hamber clay
Silicone remover wipedowns - use Prepsol if you can't source that
(I recommend and use these - De beer, Glasurit 541-5, Chem Spec Metalux 1192-222)

Following that, analyise your paint)

If going for some abrasive work, these are the true professional products I recommend (don't need to buy all of them)
Prima Swirl - first step of correction
Menzerna PO85RD and PO87MF - for use after defects are removed
Blackfire GEP (mega fine last abrasive step
Prima Amigo - non abrasive glaze

Non Abrasive products to enrich the paint and protect it
Glare Micro Finish (1st step)
Glare Professional Polish (last step and sealant)
Driven to perfection Marine - glaze and sealant)

This is the result of the following products by rotary and orbital machines (and also by hand at the end)

Gtechniq P1
Prima Swirl
Menzerna 85RD
Menzerna 87MF and Blackfire
Prima Amigo
Glare Micro FInish
Glare Professional Polish x 3 applications

serious defects

The look of the hood (colour shade) before I began treating the paint



Okay now a shot showing no more defects








This is what Glare does best, clarity and colour shade improvement


I still have four more coats of Glare on the hood and to correct, polish, glaze and seal the rest of the car

Last edited by Aurora 98 on Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

All I can say Matt is................. bugger.. *jealous stare*

That first shot you have that says serious Defects, that's my Lucifa

I know what you have said in the past about getting good results from good product and equipment but I just want to stop it going any further back to s**t. I will do the Clay block and the Prepsol as you have recommended and see how that goes. Is it better to do this inside or out of the sun at least? We used to do clay blocking when I was working at our Subaru franchise. They used to use it there for the Black Subaru Liberty's.

Thanks for putting up with all my silly questions too Matt, I am sure you get LOTS of them

that first pic of the MG is a s**t better than the paint on the bonnet of my EL

ive found that a coat of Turtle Wax ICE polish kind of hides a fair bit of the swirls in my paint, till it wears off but it really brings out the metallic in the sun. still dosent make my bonnet look any better though.



kind of like that, but you cant really see it.

Thank you very much George, always enjoy reading your posts
Mate I am very confident that Lucifa is in good hands, the products I recommended are not harsh cutting compounds, they are 1500 to 4500 grit abrasive polishes which used by hand or machine, will remove only a tiny amount of paint but transform the appearance of it
Then the non abrasive products on top will be the icing on the cake

Anyhow when I visit in February, we can see how your progressing and I can teach you how to use machines (a DA or orbital) is all you need) and even fix the bad areas of the car for you
Always do the work away from direct sunlight.
Yes some fancy product manufacturers and sellers say you can put it on in direct sunlight but it just makes more sense to do it on a cool surface.

Your questions are more than welcome, I love questions, thats what a good tradesman or product seller should do, provide great work and advice and help people out

I found the Prima Amigo Paint cleaner/Glaze available at Zen Auto Suppliers and I thinbk I could get it through Work but WOW, $45.00 I hope I can keep this forever and use it for the next 20 years

Couldn't see the Prima Swirl though? This is where I looked http://www.zas.com.au/index.php

Alfy - Ice is a product that has no corrective abilities and hides swirls for a short time.
It is also I believe a polydimethlysiloxane based product, in simple terms - water based silicone
yes it will protect - for a short term and yes it will improve shine - for a short term.
I'd put Prima Amigo, Blackfire GEP and Glare products up against that product line anyday, might even start doing videos of side by side tests between brands.

Your front guard looks like it has some potential
Whats the name of the paint colour mate? - is it navy blue

That would be Joel Blake, one of my best suppliers and visiting my shop in a few weeks
Yes the products I use aren't cheap, some from Glare are $180 + per litre but they certainly make a difference

Yes george you could use it for 20 years and the best part is that it is silicone free and doesn't cause any hassles if you get it on glass or trim

yeah mate, its Navy Blue (Paint Code N9)

the paint on my EL in some other places too is s**t, i think its had a bad spray job some time ago. i only like ICE because of the short term shine it makes, and the fact it takes me 15 minutes max to do a coat to my car lol.