maybe u need to manually lean off the lpg, since it probably is not computer controlled. (try to find a setting that runs good with the hydrogen switched on but not so good with it off.)

garth.

You say you're not happy, but if that was definately a 4.45 % increase
in milage on country trip then That is Great!
That is first increase I have read from HHO with LPG.
It looks like with adjustments to the mixture [ or O2 sensor or MAP or? ]
that you may even gain some more.
You have seen the benefit of running cooler. HHO also has some other benifits.
- As long as set up correctly - it puts a coating on the inside of the combustion
and bore surfaces.
- allows the use of poorer quality fuels with less detriment to engine.
and - reduces the pollution coming out of car.
.............. these may not add up to great saving if you have spent
$300 on a Hydrogen from Water system, but they are positive things
none the less.
Glenn.

My only question is how many litres/min are you pushing out for the Fairmont?

I have calculated on a 4.0ltr moter you will need at least 5litres/min to make any real difference.
10 - 13 litres/min to run at 2000 rpm and you should in theory get around 1200-1500km / 70litre of LPG
I have designed 2 different designs and am still running into trouble but at 14amps and 2 litres a min isOK. I am in the process of creating 3-4 of them to get my Fairmont to go...
my setup
An old car battery removing all the Lead/metal insides and replace with Square SS 15 x 15 works really well. Since a Bat has cells and isolates each 3 plates inside each bay-No power Leak. Work each chamber in the battery as a 2 volt meaning 1-2 amps per chamber = max 12 amps.

Make sure after the removal of the top you put an airtight seal lid on it with all the appropriate safety things.

interesting.

do you have any pics?
& what do you use to remove top of a battery neatly enough to reseal?

hey me again have been xperimentin with me stainless mesh. first tests electrolite too stromg takin 26 27 amps producin 2 lpm approx. unit is 1750ml volume screw top plastic container from the reject shop with reinforced perspex section to deal with heat at terminals. made 2 units adjusted electrolite now in paralell 25 amps unknown lpm seems much higher. went series down to 7-8 amps lowerlpm but not measured. Think i'll adjust electrolite in series. mesh plate design -n+n- 150mm x 80mm with perspex spacers on bottom and sides.

yeah need to do pics but camera no good. will try to organise. haven't actually fitted to vehicle yet. still sortin how n where.

eh
been reading through this post, good to see so many are interested and experimenting with hydrogen.

made a system couple of months back but because of uni and work havnt really had time to play around with it much. Made a plate config of
-NN+NN- by cutting up an old piece of SS 304 pipe. seems to make quite a bit of hydrogen, id say just under 1L/min but depending on the amount of caustic soda (NaOH) used. Seems quite a balance between generating alot of gas and overheating. Surpisingly my multimeter says its drawing 2.5~3 Amps which i think is s**t (pretty sure its broken, lol) otherwise ive got quite an efficient baby on my hands.

The plates are held together by 2 M10 316 SS bolts in the centre which only contact the 2 outer plates (negative terminals), the rest are held in place using rubber grommets which obviously dont allow the plate to make contact with the M10 bolt and provide about a 3mm spacing between the plates.
The whole setup is pretty flawed as the pipe was in pretty bad condition when i got a hold of it so some of the sides of the plates are much closer than others.
HANDY TIP: i dipped my SS plates in a mixture of hydrochloric acid and (geez forgot now, ill get back to you) to produce surface corrosion ON A MOLECULAR LEVEL (lots of tiny holes). this greatly increases surface area (one of the most important factors in electrolysis). i saw a noticable increase in amps and HHO after doing this. (even though my mulitmeter is busted)

Only just recently started playing around with it again and about to hook it up to my VN commodore ( i know you all prob hate them, lol) probably by using a tee to feed the hydrogen to the inlet manifold and also to just before the MAP sensor and butterfly valve at the throttle body for a venturi effect when the manifold vaccuum drops.

The VN has a CarPC in it (although the screen is missing as im replacing touch screen) so the plan is to plug it up to the ALDL diagnostic plug so i can read in realtime as im driving all my ECU valvues such as O2 sensor values to properly config my EFIE.
hopefully ill see an increase in MPG after all this. even though i forget what the VN usually gets for consumption as iv been driving my other car and havnt driven it for years.

ive done quite alot of research on this as im playing to do my final year thesis project on this using the VN. Im studying Robotics and Mechatronics (mechatronics = mechanical and electrical, DUH) engineering. Having some knowledge of microcontrollers and such, hopefully the plan is to use a microcontroller to govern the amount of HHO produced (by varying volt/amp) to maximise efficiency based on O2 sensor/throttle pos/temp/RPM etc. but thatl be next year if i can see any increase in MPG with the crappy electrodes i have now.

sorry to make this post huge, just introducing myself.

few more things:
NO i dont believe in overunity - my dad has a PHD in chemistry and we have come to the conclusion HHO inject is more economical because it has a higher repsonse time for burining than petrol and therefore explodes before and helps to ignite the petrol more efficiently. there are other theories but this seems the most logical to me. Also you cannot get more power from burning HHO than u used to create it therefore running your car entirely on HHO WONT work, you may be able to get it to run, but pretty shortly the battery will run dead (you will need to be drawing about 100Amps if not more).

YES KOH is the BEST electrolite, but i cant find any NaOH is good also but sodium has smaller molecules than potassium and thats why is not as effective

***YES I HAVE ACCESS TO A DYNO - and once i get this system up and running, prob after exams (~5weeks) i will post before and after power ect

eh you prolly all hate me for such a long post...
ill come back later.
catch

Hey Stiive..

except for the holden thing... you seen ok... be interested to see what you come up with.

I've been looking at my stainless steel thermos with speculation lately.. it is already two layers of stainless close together.. just got the top off and see if you can insert a mesh sheet in between them...

anyway, pics mate.. lots of pics.

rgds

Frank

Hi Stiive,
where are you studying? Dont matter what car you are experimenting on, an old VN is fine... Garth has been playing with his old Hilux and we have all learned a lot. I heard the Spoonman talking about hydrogen fuel last night on MMM so It's starting to get people interested.
Cheers,
Richard

Last edited by Rick's EF Fairmont Wagon on Tue May 20, 2008 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

studying at Swinburne. eh gathr injecting his H into a carb, but its quite different on an EFI, especially with all the feedback systems trying to control the emmissions. This usually increases fuel consumption without EFIE and other. Also from the looks of the vid's gathr's not producing huge amounts of H or meddled with the carb to try get better consumption (correct me if im wrong). Thought id add another aspect to HHO injection seeing as though most of you would have a EFI car.

Also the spoonman (whoever that is), was most likely talking about hydrogen fuel cells which are a complete waste of time! either burning the hydrogen in an IC engine (like the BWM hydrogen 7, which is pretty much a failure) or more likely by using the hydrogen to produce electricity to run an electric engine, which is also a failure because you are far better off just charging your car from the grid and powering it that way. Tesla roadster is a good expample, can go about 340kms on an 8hour charge (about the kms i go in a week) and gets awesome accelleration (0-100 ~ 3.9secs) because of an electric motors instant torque. This (electricity) i think is the future of cars because once our power from the grid is renewable then the car is emmission free all the way.

Franklieh - thanks for your support, i will post some pics/vids soon. dont quite know what you mean by the following quote



are you hoping to put mesh between and pos and negative plate to produce a neutral plate? i really recommend neutral plates to anyone, waste of time without - too much gunk and heat.

anyway, time to go

BTW Gathr if you still use this forum, how bout some updates on MPG and HHO production rate for inspiration

cheers

How can we set this up so you can just run the car off HHO (Browns)

massive gas production would be required

a few large hydrogen generators and a very long extension cord

from a webstie

running a car purely on hydrogen from an on-board electrolyzer
Let us do some calculations: A proper air to fuel mixture by volume for hydrogen combustion would be about 3:1. That means that ¼ of the space in the cylinder must be hydrogen and ¾ must be air. Taking a 4 liter 4 stroke engine at 1000 RPM you would have 2000 liters per minute going through the engine. At 4000 RPM you would have 8000 liters going through the engine and 2000 liters of that would be hydrogen. So to run the car you’d need a hydrogen production rate of about 2000 liters per minute. There are about 36 liters in one cubic feet of space. If you divide 36 into 2000 you would have to have about 56 cubit feet of space inside a properly designed electrolyzer in order to supply enough hydrogen to run the car. That’s if you had the energy on board to split the water into hydrogen and oxygen. Actually you’d have to have 84 cubic feet because the oxygen gas would have to come out of the water as well as the hydrogen. So if you could properly design an electrolyzer the size of the entire back seat and storage area of an SUV, you might be able to get the gases out of the water without sucking water into the engine. But then there is the problem of the energy required to electrolyze the water, but I guess some people seem to think that pulsing the electrical power will do that miracle.

I was just interested. Thankyou for the reply. I am interested in making one one of thes units.

Did anyone think about using a cholrinator from a salt water pool. these are Electrolysis units too . Unsure of the amps or voltage.