15amps for 1lpm.. thats impressive..

hats off to the people that get into this..

ppl might learn something extra from reading the last part of this:
http://www.fordmods.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=68940

Hi
Well the latest on my setup. I found out bigger isnt always better.
I fitted my new cell second cell. But because I didnt allow for the extra volts and amps required to run to run both units I went back to 16.2 litres per 100Ks.
The science behind this is the following.
To achieve electrolysis and for one cell to work you need at least 1.24volts across the plates (the more amps the better).Any volts above this is actually turned into heat. As I am running 6 neutrals between my positive and neg plate assembly it acts like a series of resisters. With two cells this voltage drop across the cell plates is even less. I would need to run around 40 plus amps to achieve production but as my PWM only handles 30 amps it didn’t produce even close to enough HHO.
Sorry if fell asleep reading that bit.
So its back to the drawing board and one cell. I think I was getting greedy trying to get even better economy on the LPG/HHO system.

Hi,
Are You meaning 16.2 kilometers/litre or 16.2 litres/100 km
Just seems like really bad mileage even for an AU (or is it not standard?)

Hi Garth

16.2 litres per 100Ks. I drive really hard and it was quite a bit of city.
I know the taxi boys only get around 15 to 20 litres
per 100Ks most closer to the 20 Litres mark.
Back to one cell and really happy with production.
Just fitted a HHO system to the daughters Lanos and it seems to be running very well.

Cheers

Madmurf

Guys,

Thinking about putting another cell into my generator. It will be in the1 tube but 2 sets of plates inside. Looking at setup of -nnn+nnn-nnn+ Do you think this will work? I have heard a lot about series and parallel arguement but not sure which way I should go here to.Any thoughts would be most welcome.

I seem to be getting good results with this cell at the moment. 11.2 litres/100 km and deceasing. This is only over 250kms in town running. Can't wait to hit the open road and see what I can get out of it.

My cell last week blew the 15Amp fuse. I have gone back to a 30 and that seems to be holding up ok. At idle and cold it is pulling 8.8Amps but I don't have an ammetre wired into it in car, so no idea what it is pulling when I am driving it.

Let you know of more results as they come in.

Hi
The cell is that a stainless tube then flat plates inside.?
Series is the preferred option. Voltage causes excess heat, amps produce the HHO.
The only issue with series is you will need to increase the catalyst concentration 5 fold to get the amps happening.
Fuses blowing.? What electrolyte do you use. Some can be very unpredictable in what amps they will pull today compared to tomorrow. Its usually based a lot on water temp. As the temp increases so do the amps and HHO in fact and its not always linear.
Use what Garth and I do KOH but make sure you are super careful with it.
Invest in a PWM (pulse width modulator) this will keep the amps where you want them. You only need to set it up once and then forget. I like to have an amp meter wired in the car that way I know what my Cell is doing. Its a good safety device in case your cells runs out of water etc. If your cell is half empty and the top plates get super hot or spark then its good by cell “boom.”

Garth and co
I have come to the conclusion about HHO I believe there is a balance between improvement to your fuel economy and not Its directly proportional by how much HHO you feed back into the system.. Well that’s what I have found on the Ford. Its bit like a balance between HHO, LPG and Air. The trick is to get that balance. The other factors may also be the type of fuel, how much HHO produced and where its injected and type of electronics on the engine.
Has anyone seen the same as me.? I am currently testing this out as I do a large number of Ks consistently which makes a good testing ground. So far theory is proving correct. I have gone from 22 Amps to 17 and the economy has improved. Producing around the 1 litre per min mark. I can control the amps because of my PWM setup.

Cheers
madmurf

Madmurf,

My cell is sewer PVC and yes it is flat plates inside. I am using NAOH as my electrolyte. I still haven't scourced any KOH. where did you get yours from?

PWM.. where can I get one of these too? I think that is a good idea to have it where amps are a constant set value. Havcing a fuse in line I now know that I am pulling more than 15 amps and less than 30... At least it is a safety switch..

Hi Manstra

I use the PVC/ ss plate setup at the moment.
I have gone for the 100mm pipe I like plenty of liquid around my plates. I have 8 plates
+nnnnnn- they are laser cut and dead flate so I can get them close together, (Plastic washer width)
I have used SS 16g x 10cm as my leads these are also insullated to save on current leakage (another topic) I want all the action to happen at the plates not my leads. Dont use copper inside the cell.
NAOH is fine. Your correct about getting hold of KOH
because its also used in drug production. I got mine from a soap shop as its also use in soap making. Stick to standard caustic for now not much difference in production and as long as your using 316 and the water is distilled it will stay clean. DONT USE BAKING SODA (another topic for discussion)
I have a new 30 amp PWM spare at the moment i will list it on ebay under HHO PWM for around $80 plus delivery if your interested, it has saved me a lot of melted wires and cells. I just take an educated guess now on the KOH and if its too much big deal the PWM will handle the over dose.
With your wireing make sure your get the largest wire your can to handle the power to the cell and the joints are spot on solder if at all possible.
You dont want high resistance jonts thats a waste of amps.
Sorry about the long message just tell me pull my head if all too long winded I just like the idea that some of us I doing the right thing for the world and our pockets.
Let me know if your after the PWM I curretly have a couple of items listed on ebay (under madmurf)at the moment. With your setup go +nn-nn.
Keep sharing guys so we can all learn.
Install a Flash Back Arrester and a Relay if you havent already.
Off to the shed now to build another cell.

HHO-OZ

Cheers
Madmurf

Posted: Yesterday at 8:45 pm Post subject:

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Thanks Madmurf for that.

I have 100mm pvc tube, 5 plates -nnn+ at the moment with NAOH. I have no joints at all inside the tube. I made my + and - plates with tabs on them and they bolt onto the endcap of the tube and the wires attached to these bolts on the outside of the tube. There is NO copper inside as I have heard that that is BAD.

I am very interested in the PWM but funds are a bit short at the moment. Any chance you could hold 1 aside for me for a month or so? I don't have a flash back arrestewr installed, just a bubler. I heard they do the same thing.. stop the flame from getting to the generator.

Don't apologise for the long messages.the more information the better a** far as I am concerned.

I was wondering why you recommended +nn-nn for my setup? I can't see what the last 2 n's would do.. or should it be +nn-nn+?

Thanks again to you and Garth for getting me hooked into this.

Hey Madmurf,

I agree with Manstra - definitely no need to apologise for longish posts, the more details the better.
Nobody is forced to read them if they don't want to.

Keep up the good work.

Garth

Gooday,
The O2 sensor you can fool easy by wrapping around some aluminium foil around the lamda-probe it on the outside (three layers loosly wraped wille do) . You can find this probe somewhere on your extension.
The probe measures the difference between the exaust temperature and the the temperature outside, by insulating it al little, you trick the system.

Hi Manstra
Correct should have been + on the end what your config is a basic Smack Booster style.
The flash arrester is just more insurance. If your flow rate is high and your bubler is a bit low on water it can actually follow the gas path back to the cell. I haven't seen it and wouldn't like to but it just extra insurance.
I get PWMs in quite often just drop me a line if you need one.
Robert007 I have done that trick with foil and it works. If its an AU Egas.
I ended up with an electronic attachment gave me more control

I have done a run at 14 amps today and achieved another litre on savings so just got to get the balance. Down another 2 amps and will post results next week.
Working on the petrol patrol this weekend. I have a new cell in test. Made up of about a meter of thin 316 stainless coiled up with gutter guard in between. I was getting very good production at 10 amps. All inside a pvc tube, I think its 80mm.
Catch you later
Madmurf

Hi well the results are in for the Ford on LPG.
14 to 15 amps with my sort of driving is the go, consistantly getting under 11.5 litres per 100ks.
Im also getting around 150Ks per tank out of the Daewoo Lanos (mixed driving) MAP unit goes on next.
Keep on HHO
Madmurf