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| norton-79 |
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Hi all.
I have converted my au2 ute to duel fuel with a sprint gas systerm and have been thinking of cheep way's to regain the small power loss of the mixer ring in the intake. I have been thinking of fitting a larger duct from the air filter box to the T.B. as well as other upgrades to theintake systerm. I was also thinking of fitting a larger mixer ring to reduce the restriction in the intake at this point or would this couse other problems? Any input would be welcome |
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| Rick's EF Fairmont Wagon |
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Hi Mate,
from what I understand you need the narrow mixer to suck the gas in due to the higher velocity air flow through a smaller opening. This of course is only at lower revs. Above 2500 or so the mixer needs no restriction. Thre is one that used to be made by AIROD that was variable and had some benefit. See other thread on the airod
_________________ BF3 Egas XT Wagon |
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| low_ryda |
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shouldve went the full gas conversion if your worried bout consumable costs, i wouldn't piss on dual fuel personally, cost u just as much to do full gas if u shop around, theres no great medium between petrol n gas performance, just a medium. two totally different fuels.
and i have heard of people getting more power from dedicated gas conversions (after chasing it tuning no bolt ons)
_________________ Not to get technical, but according to chemistry alcohol is a solution. |
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| Nigel |
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Dual Fuel, especially with a dual curve chip is as good as straight gas. The same rules always apply, and the fuel system is all there anyway.
As much as compression helps, the biggest benefits are in the right tune, cam, and spark mappings. I had an EB on LPG, and with the right gear made more power on LPG than fuel. Same engine. Its happening a lot with injected systems. and.. With Fuel, I have the ability to go the extra 20kms I need from Sydney to Coffs towing a very heavy trailer..... due to a fuel load mis-calc. |
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| low_ryda |
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dual curve ecu would make it alot better, i don't think he has one though...
and i believe your still compromising between two fuels. as good as the compromise might be. goes on a scale, i've driven a mates cfi on dual fuel and it was an absolute crime against nature, and i've driven more refined setups and read about alot more. for the initial outlay though, if the government still offers the grant i'd be going full gas if i was that way inclined, i've never been sold on gas though thats why it's my opinion! not expert advice..
_________________ Not to get technical, but according to chemistry alcohol is a solution. |
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| Nigel |
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The very basics are that except for the timing, you still need a throttle body.
The Injectors arent restrictive. The restriction needs to be there on LPG Systems to draw the LPG. So thats life. You have 18% odd volume of LPG. So done right, its a moot point. The only issue is maintaining the Fuel System. Anyway - what works for you works for you. I had a striaght LPG Falcon for 7 years - and loved it. I wish the LPG Injection systems didnt want fuel to start. You can get away with it in QLD, but youd be stuffed in the Snowies - the system would freeze before it warmed up. |
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| low_ryda |
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not to mention the amount of exploded air cleaners i've seen lol
pretty impressive seeing someone pump an lpg car to start.
_________________ Not to get technical, but according to chemistry alcohol is a solution. |
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| tickford_6 |
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Posts: 6449 Joined: 11th Nov 2004 |
low_ryda wrote: dual curve ecu would make it alot better, i don't think he has one though... and i believe your still compromising between two fuels. as good as the compromise might be. goes on a scale, i've driven a mates cfi on dual fuel and it was an absolute crime against nature, and i've driven more refined setups and read about alot more. for the initial outlay though, if the government still offers the grant i'd be going full gas if i was that way inclined, i've never been sold on gas though thats why it's my opinion! not expert advice.. Could you explain your theory a little more? You've been very vague so far. If you can run suitable ignition timing for each fuel, (thats all you can really do without going inside the engine) How can straight gas be better. the only difference would be that the petrol system would be removed, the only upside would be more boot space with the tank under the floor. down side, when gas runs out, it's tow truck time. You can't get gas everywhere. |
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| low_ryda |
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well you answered it yourself, without opening the engine dual maps are as good as you can get, which i agreed with, but you can do better.
for lonivity i wouldn't bother with gas unless i dropped in stainless valves and seats coz gas has no lube effect, so everytime your driving your un-touched dual fuel setup your damaging your engine. if your going to go to all that trouble, then you might aswell run a dedicated setup with donut tank and retain all the factory space & appearance then tune to suit. motors weren't designed to be chopped and changed all the time, hence when some people start improving motors they fail. my brother used to be an engine reco'er and said he seen more heads fail from gas injection than anything else. hard for me to explain my logic coz i have it all in my head and when it comes time to get it out apparently i turn autistic and can't get it out lol.
_________________ Not to get technical, but according to chemistry alcohol is a solution. |
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| MMD |
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low_ryda wrote: for lonivity i wouldn't bother with gas unless i dropped in stainless valves and seats coz gas has no lube effect, so everytime your driving your un-touched dual fuel setup your damaging your engine. How many taxi's out there are running LPG ??? Sure they are Dual Fuel and start on Petrol - most taxi's don't get run on petrol - Start Car at start of shift drive 350K's, turn off to refuel start on petrol. avg taxi engine life say 500,000K's so in that time it gets like ~50,000 Squirts of petrol - that enough to Lube the engine ? (that's probably being generous on the amount of petrol starts it gets) Secondly you can get a Flash Lube Valve saver - never looked into it to see if it does they job it is intended but it is available. |
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| low_ryda |
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later model cars aren't affected as severely but they still suffer. ever asked the average owner/driver cabbie how much he spends on 'maintainence' a month ? and from the first day they turned the key, that was it's destiny.... to never stop, to convey drunken louts, run constant shifts etc. it's not a motor that knows only of fuel.
not saying your car WILL shyte itself, just sharing my opinion on gas which may be bias but it's my opinion it's alllowed to be
_________________ Not to get technical, but according to chemistry alcohol is a solution. |
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| MontGas |
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Getting back to the subject, i to have a crappy sprint gas new system (venturi) and that damn mixer ring, can i use and impco 200 mixer, and just tap the gas hose onto it? (does it flow any good the impco 200).
or where can i get a less restrictive mixer to swap with my crappy ring dont car about my idle as its s**t on any fuel. and if ur gunna reccomend a product, price, name and where to purchase from. does anyone have any pics of the inside of an impco 200? thanks |
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| tickford_6 |
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Posts: 6449 Joined: 11th Nov 2004 |
low_ryda wrote: well you answered it yourself, without opening the engine dual maps are as good as you can get, which i agreed with, but you can do better. for lonivity i wouldn't bother with gas unless i dropped in stainless valves and seats coz gas has no lube effect, so everytime your driving your un-touched dual fuel setup your damaging your engine. if your going to go to all that trouble, then you might aswell run a dedicated setup with donut tank and retain all the factory space & appearance then tune to suit. motors weren't designed to be chopped and changed all the time, hence when some people start improving motors they fail. my brother used to be an engine reco'er and said he seen more heads fail from gas injection than anything else. hard for me to explain my logic coz i have it all in my head and when it comes time to get it out apparently i turn autistic and can't get it out lol. Again, WHY is straight gas better? When the only difference is the petrol system is removed. As far as longevity, falcons do head gaskets every 120 000km to 160 000km on petrol or gas, which means the head going to get a reco at that time. you still havn't given ANY reason why straight gas is better, in fact you given a reason why duel fuel is better, Duel fuel cars run on petrol as well and while it's petrol the so called 'damaging effects' of LPG aren't there, giving a longer engine life. According to your theory anyway. |
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| low_ryda |
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no i'm saying for going thru the hassle of phukin round will dual curve maps (which most dual fuel setups on theroad don't have), and tuning,loss of space, etc you might aswell do a full gas conversion.
i've seen plenty of 4.0's go past 200 on a standard gasket without phukin with them, thats when things go wrong. so no i don't think a bandaid solution for fuel economy is the best way to save money. sorry we don't see eye to eye, i believe thats what forums are for.
_________________ Not to get technical, but according to chemistry alcohol is a solution. |
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| tickford_6 |
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Posts: 6449 Joined: 11th Nov 2004 |
low_ryda wrote: no i'm saying for going thru the hassle of phukin round will dual curve maps (which most dual fuel setups on theroad don't have), and tuning,loss of space, etc you might aswell do a full gas conversion. i've seen plenty of 4.0's go past 200 on a standard gasket without phukin with them, thats when things go wrong. so no i don't think a bandaid solution for fuel economy is the best way to save money. sorry we don't see eye to eye, i believe thats what forums are for. the problem is you keep saying full gas conversion, but you don't say what a full gas conversion is. we may not see eye to eye, but that's because you're not providing any information, i'm simply trying to probe you for it. |
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