Fordmods Logo

Octane relating to Compression 

 

Page 1 of 1 [ 8 posts ] 

 
 Post subject: Octane relating to Compression
Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:44 pm 
Parts Gopher
Offline

Age: 59

Posts: 73

Joined: 9th Dec 2007

Ride: EL Fairmont Ghia

Location: South Coast
NSW, Australia

I've been wondering. What the maximum amount of compression I could have in my normally aspirated engine and safely run:

1) 91RON petrol

2) 98RON petrol

3) LPG (RON about 105, so I've heard)

And given that,

How much would I have to drop the static compression of each example for every 1psi of forced induction that may then go into the motor.

Which then begs the question. Should there be any difference in power between an engine that is running its maximum compression for any given fuel and a boosted motor with that fuel that has a lower compression ratio to allow for the forced induction?

I've done a bunch of searches with no luck.

Any insight appreciated

Cheers

 

_________________

'97 V8 EL Ghia Webasto 400 sunroof, Tint, Parnell VSI LPG, UPC 330mm brake upgrade (drilled), Pacemaker twin system, T5 conversion (Billet Products shifter)

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 1:26 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Age: 45

Posts: 1329

Joined: 5th Nov 2004

Ride: 66 Coupe

Location: Perth
WA, Australia

91 RON you can safely run 9-9.5:1
98 RON you can go upto around 10:5 - 11:1
LPG upto 12:1

obsviously cams, tuning and timing play a big part, so do spark plug heat ranges and combustion chamber shape
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:27 am 
Parts Gopher
Offline

Age: 59

Posts: 73

Joined: 9th Dec 2007

Ride: EL Fairmont Ghia

Location: South Coast
NSW, Australia

Thanks for that, gives me somewhere to start.

 

_________________

'97 V8 EL Ghia Webasto 400 sunroof, Tint, Parnell VSI LPG, UPC 330mm brake upgrade (drilled), Pacemaker twin system, T5 conversion (Billet Products shifter)

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:22 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 42

Posts: 1775

Joined: 10th Jul 2007

Gallery: 8 images

Ride: BFII Turbo

Power: 253 rwkw

Location: Waurn Ponds
VIC, Australia

Quote:
Which then begs the question. Should there be any difference in power between an engine that is running its maximum compression for any given fuel and a boosted motor with that fuel that has a lower compression ratio to allow for the forced induction?


depending on the levels of boost involved quite a lot of difference. even a high compresion engine wont operate near full 100% volumetric efficiency, especially a long stroke motor like our falcon sixes for instance. iirc these engines run at around 80% VE. with hi comp and fuel, cam and spark changes, you might increase that a bit, but nowhere near what forced induction does. when you go into boost you are increasing the engines VE past 100%, as its fitting in more air to the cylinder than what the engine is capable of. This is what increases power and torque as there is more air mass to be heated and thus expand in the resulting bang. Long stroke motors love FI because it overcomes the natural hurdles inherint in that setup, as rpm rises long strokes struggle to maintain efficiency in standard form, imagine a long thin bike pump, and a short fat one, which one would be easier to pump at high revs.

Im relativley newbie to this concept and I hope I havnt made too many glaring errors, but thats one beginer to another :)

 

_________________

enough isn't enough

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:01 am 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 39

Posts: 841

Joined: 10th Sep 2006

Gallery: 3 images

Ride: V8 Falcon, Nissan Patrol

Location: Brisbane, Bouncing off 5800RPM
QLD, Australia

{USERNAME} wrote:
91 RON you can safely run 9-9.5:1
98 RON you can go upto around 10:5 - 11:1
LPG upto 12:1

obsviously cams, tuning and timing play a big part, so do spark plug heat ranges and combustion chamber shape

So a 9.8:1 head should run 95-98RON?

 

_________________

1993 Ford Fairmont EB II 5.0L V8 Wagon
1992 Nissan Patrol TI 4.2L Diesel 4x4 Wagon

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 6:45 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline
User avatar

Age: 71

Posts: 3555

Joined: 7th Nov 2004

Gallery: 4 images

Power: 482 rwkw

Location: Penrith
NSW, Australia

{USERNAME} wrote:
{USERNAME} wrote:
91 RON you can safely run 9-9.5:1
98 RON you can go upto around 10:5 - 11:1
LPG upto 12:1

obsviously cams, tuning and timing play a big part, so do spark plug heat ranges and combustion chamber shape

So a 9.8:1 head should run 95-98RON?


Yes it can BUT with good ECU and tune..Four valve heads can run that comp easy with good tune..

 

_________________

As in ZOOM 126 edition
331 Dart block,3.25/ 4340 steel crank, Oliver rods,TFS ported track heat heads, TFS track heat inlet Twin SC61 turbo's
Project 1UZ-EF has started.. S475 Turbo 4.0 V8 Mustang Celica.....

Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 6:45 pm 
Getting Side Ways
Offline

Posts: 6449

Joined: 11th Nov 2004

{USERNAME} wrote:
{USERNAME} wrote:
91 RON you can safely run 9-9.5:1
98 RON you can go upto around 10:5 - 11:1
LPG upto 12:1
obsviously cams, tuning and timing play a big part, so do spark plug heat ranges and combustion chamber shape

So a 9.8:1 head should run 95-98RON?
Top
 Profile  
 
 
Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:52 pm 
Parts Gopher
Offline

Age: 59

Posts: 73

Joined: 9th Dec 2007

Ride: EL Fairmont Ghia

Location: South Coast
NSW, Australia

{USERNAME} wrote:
Quote:
Which then begs the question. Should there be any difference in power between an engine that is running its maximum compression for any given fuel and a boosted motor with that fuel that has a lower compression ratio to allow for the forced induction?


depending on the levels of boost involved quite a lot of difference. even a high compresion engine wont operate near full 100% volumetric efficiency, especially a long stroke motor like our falcon sixes for instance. iirc these engines run at around 80% VE. with hi comp and fuel, cam and spark changes, you might increase that a bit, but nowhere near what forced induction does. when you go into boost you are increasing the engines VE past 100%, as its fitting in more air to the cylinder than what the engine is capable of. This is what increases power and torque as there is more air mass to be heated and thus expand in the resulting bang. Long stroke motors love FI because it overcomes the natural hurdles inherint in that setup, as rpm rises long strokes struggle to maintain efficiency in standard form, imagine a long thin bike pump, and a short fat one, which one would be easier to pump at high revs.

Im relativley newbie to this concept and I hope I havnt made too many glaring errors, but thats one beginer to another :)


That definitely fills in one of the bits I was missing, Cheers. I'm planning a little boost for my VSI LPG 5.0 EL and I'm thirsting for knowledge. Got this link given to me today which you may find interesting.

{DESCRIPTION}

Thanks again

 

_________________

'97 V8 EL Ghia Webasto 400 sunroof, Tint, Parnell VSI LPG, UPC 330mm brake upgrade (drilled), Pacemaker twin system, T5 conversion (Billet Products shifter)

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:
Sort by  
 Page 1 of 1  [ 8 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot] and 22 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

 

 

It is currently Mon Dec 23, 2024 6:19 pm All times are UTC + 11 hours

 

 

(c)2014 Total Web Solutions Australia - Australian Web Hosting and Domain Names