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| sly |
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EL XR8 wrote: i've already got my Vortech, and can do kits for probably the same price as these raptors...
Well there's a big hole in the market ATM. CAPA are no longer supplying Powerdyne kits and they don't have a V2-SQ kit for stock E-series / AU engines. Maybe you should put your money where your mouth is. Tim the Raptor man has, and he seems to have no shortage of satisfied customers in other forums eg East Coast Utes, Brisbane Commodores and Street Commodores just from my own research into the product.
_________________ AU1.5 Wagon, Raptor ProStreet kit, Pacemaker 4499's with 3" collector, 3" metal cat, 3" pipe, Pex BSO660 & BSO439, BA brakes, Sprintgas mixer LPG system, Airod variable-venturi mixer... stealth FTW Sniper tuned! |
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| EL XR8 |
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It not a business with me. I have a smaller supply of gear, that i am selling to mates. But its for the V8's.I'm sure CAPA still sell kits for the Windsors, and the reason they probably dont sell kits for the 6's aymore, is because there are numerous turbo kits out there, that are cheaper than blower kits for the 6's that have proved to get good numbers, with room for more potential down the track without having to totally upgrade everything.For me, whether this Raptor blower is anygood or not. A turbo setup would still be my preference on any motor, but definately for a 6. The only reason they suck with 8's is the pipework or twin turbo setup adds extra $$$So do these Raptor blowers max out like the powerdynes do, or snap internal belts, etc. If you try to get some power out of them?Seems weird they started getting pushed all of a sudden on every website known to man. Almost like spam.
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| Priestly007 |
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has there been any dyno figures or even pics of this kinda setup?
Its amazing these charger 'guys' are bagging out the turbo setups etc and saying that 'we' (the turbo guys) dont want to hear the truth yet I havent seen pics or anything like that of the charger setup itself......
_________________ EF ECTIV |
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| Slick |
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^^
Snap out of it. no one here is bagging the turbos. they were only commenting on the disadvantages, time frame & extra material involved. the advantage of these s/c kits are easy of fitment, actually they were design to run on stock standard engines safely. just fit, flash & forget under 3 hours...simple! if you want higher boost, then prepare to fork out extra dough on stronger engine components. at the end, it'll cost you more then you bargain for. Last time I've check this area was call "Force induction workshop", not "turbo workshop". Talk about sensitive man! LOL
_________________ Mind f**k!!! it works on feeble minded ignorant sheeples... there's plenty of em on this site... some are very intelligent but by god they are so thick!!! Pakrat wrote: You can buy them seppertly
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| EL XR8 |
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Have a read back Slick.
Nah, no one was bagging out turdbo's. Nah not at all. Do we now start calling those blowers, called Rapturds? Forced induction, doesn't include turbo's.... are you serious??? WTF do you think a turbo is? On a serious note, how hard are these blowers being pushed...? I thought you had to be a sponsor in here to push a product like this? |
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| Grimketel |
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EL XR8 wrote: Forced induction, doesn't include turbo's.... are you serious??? WTF do you think a turbo is?
sit down and take a breath. before you hurt yourself. You talk down slick for not reading a post, then do the same. he never said turbo's wernt forced induction. Get a grip. All he is saying is that superchargers are forced induction too, and warrant merrit in this forum because whenever they are spoken of the guys with turbos "can" get quite upity about the use of superchargers as if no one has the right to use them because they feel turbos are just the product to have. well it might be for you but it isnt for everyone.
_________________ enough isn't enough |
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| EL XR8 |
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Slick wrote: ^^Last time I've check this area was call "Force induction workshop", not "turbo workshop".
More grunt, no breath was needed to be taken, but i think you should read before saying i can't........ You do realise i have a supercharged car... not a turbo'd car?So I'm not biased to the turbo side of things! They just work better and are cheaper on the 6's, its a fact. They're more costly on the 8's, so the blowers are usualy chosen. I can see both sides of it, but the guys who are pushing these Raptor blowers so hard, have basically slagged off turdbo's as they call them, as being a s**t expensive setup, when they're definately not. |
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| Priestly007 |
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Slick wrote: ^^
Snap out of it. no one here is bagging the turbos. they were only commenting on the disadvantages, time frame & extra material involved. the advantage of these s/c kits are easy of fitment, actually they were design to run on stock standard engines safely. just fit, flash & forget under 3 hours...simple! if you want higher boost, then prepare to fork out extra dough on stronger engine components. at the end, it'll cost you more then you bargain for. Last time I've check this area was call "Force induction workshop", not "turbo workshop". Talk about sensitive man! LOL still no figures or photos....... No one is bagging turboes? Are you kidding me? Personally Ive got no probs with raptors blowers.... Ive got problems with people sprouting complete s**t about turbo installs....Such as some of the crap Ive read in this thread......
_________________ EF ECTIV |
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| sly |
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Priestly007 wrote: has there been any dyno figures or even pics of this kinda setup?
Its amazing these charger 'guys' are bagging out the turbo setups etc and saying that 'we' (the turbo guys) dont want to hear the truth yet I havent seen pics or anything like that of the charger setup itself...... Plenty of both on the product's website. I'd include the url in this post except that someone would probably then bag me out for pushing the product.
_________________ AU1.5 Wagon, Raptor ProStreet kit, Pacemaker 4499's with 3" collector, 3" metal cat, 3" pipe, Pex BSO660 & BSO439, BA brakes, Sprintgas mixer LPG system, Airod variable-venturi mixer... stealth FTW Sniper tuned! |
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| sly |
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EL XR8 wrote: You do realise i have a supercharged car... not a turbo'd car?So I'm not biased to the turbo side of things! They just work better and are cheaper on the 6's, its a fact. I must be an exception to the rule then. I did my sums on a turbo install for my AU 6 and came out at close to $13,000 all up. That included upgrading the LPG system to SVI, so call it $10,000 without. That includes intercooling (which I can get away without, running on LPG with a centri blower maxing out at 9-10psi) and upgrading the auto straight up, to cope with the turbo being spooled up at the TC's 2000rpm stall speed. I may need to upgrade the tranny later with a centri blower, but it'd be much later than with a turbo. Granted the turbo would give me more grunt, but for around $5,000 a centri blower that I can fit myself offers good bang for the buck, and the Mrs won't be scared of driving the car. EL XR8 wrote: I can see both sides of it, but the guys who are pushing these Raptor blowers so hard, have basically slagged off turdbo's as they call them, as being a s**t expensive setup, when they're definately not.
I can only see one bloke pushing it and using the term "turdbo". The rest of us are trying to be balanced and respectful. If you're going to start shooting make sure you use a rifle, not a scatter gun. As I said earlier, there's a hole in the market. Those of us who are keen on the Raptor have been waiting some 6 months since the initial announcement that a kit was being developed for EF/EL/AU and I guess we are getting a bit edgy with anticipation. Since CAPA,discontinued the Powerdyne kits 6 months ago they have been continually unable to say whether they are doing a Vortech kit for those models, or even whether they might get around to it one day. The one bloke who was pushing the product hard has taken the negative feedback on board and toned down his enthusiasm. The following isn't directed at you, ELXR8, but at others who have chosen to put their oars in the water. It just seems logical to put it in this post: f**k off and let us enjoy the anticipation!!!!!!
_________________ AU1.5 Wagon, Raptor ProStreet kit, Pacemaker 4499's with 3" collector, 3" metal cat, 3" pipe, Pex BSO660 & BSO439, BA brakes, Sprintgas mixer LPG system, Airod variable-venturi mixer... stealth FTW Sniper tuned! |
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| Dansedgli |
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What prices were you getting to come to a $10,000 turbo install? Can you list out where it all goes?
If you go low boost then the same mods would need to be done to cope with your bolt on raptor kit anyway. |
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| ebs_4l |
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Redford wrote: a point to make here is that the volumetric efficency at low cranking speed should be at its highest for that engine and will drop off as the rpm increases.
a better flowing intake manifold, a cam with more lift, duration and overlap, opening up the head ports, bigger valves and a free flowing exhaust will increase power by raising the volumetric efficiency but the NA engine will allways create some vacuum on the intake stroke. the best built naturally aspirated engine will never achieve 100 percent volumetric efficiency because atmospheric pressure can only do so much to overcome the restrictions and turbulence in the intake system. as rpm goes up, volumetric efficiency drops off. the only way to overcome the limitation is to add a forced induction system to increase the volume or atmospheric pressure giving the air more "push" as it enters the cylinders so the efficiency goes up and the engine makes more power. it can then breathe at 100 percent volumetric efficiency or higher depending on how much pressure is used. sorry, you are wrong 1) greatest volumetric efficiency is not at cranking speed.. 2) the thought that volumetric effieciency drops with rpm is also half wrong.. 3) and N/A engines can in fact exceed 100% VE... VE of an engine peaks exactly at the peak torque rpm.. this is the point where the cylinders are breathing the maximum amount of air as mechanically possible for the engine combination in question... cranking speed is the worse VE point of an engine, dont beleive me, try a compression test with a brand new battery cranking it at 300rpm, then do it with a near flat battery, the slower cranking speed will yield lower compression gauge results.. VE of the engine climbs from idle all the way up to the torque peak, only after the torque peak does the torque figure decrease with rpm N/A engines with a well designed inlet and exhaust manifold can exceed 100% VE, figure that the scavenging effect off a well designed header with tuned scavanging pulses will produce about a 6psi suction on the cylinder, and the pressure drop of the piston moving down the bore is usually no more than about 2psi, so the header is providing a major source of the engines breathing potential.. a correctly setup inlet tract/manifold, with tuned pressure wave motion can be used to time a high pressure wave with the valve opening events, remember that the charge air and exhaust gas both have an amount of inertia. get the air travelling towards the cylinder and also away from it at precisely the right time... and the net outcome is better than 100% cylinder filling
_________________ EB 4L, 8.4:1, R154, GT4202r, 4in exhaust, Greenslade Engineering exhaust manifold, plenum chamber, 90mm throttle, Garrett W2A cooler, Surecam custom, autronic SM4, Bosch 120lb, Crane HI-6, LX-92, LM-1, Turbosmart Reg, 2x bosch 044, turbosmart 48 gate. 470kw+ @ 18PSI |
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| Redford |
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Priestly007 wrote: has there been any dyno figures or even pics of this kinda setup?
Its amazing these charger 'guys' are bagging out the turbo setups etc and saying that 'we' (the turbo guys) dont want to hear the truth yet I havent seen pics or anything like that of the charger setup itself...... in this thread or in general? seriously, turbos and blowers like powerdyne, raptor, vortech and the like all use "centrifugal displacement" NOT "positive deplacement" which is what the topic started out as. then peeps like cookie coming in on page 2 and starting a totaly different topic about raptors on boost when it wasnt even mentioned in the first place. edit: thanks ebs_4l i just saw your post and i think you are right, i was calling it the way i understood it. i have heard of NA reaching figures close to %100ve but i didnt know it was acheivable.
_________________ Speed Safely! |
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| Slick |
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EL XR8 wrote: Forced induction, doesn't include turbo's.... are you serious??? WTF do you think a turbo is? You're taking it out of context. What I mean was, the way you two were carrying on, its like we were in you space. it almost sounded like you felt threaten with the influx of S/C threads. before,,, this front page was full with turbo threads. its quite understandable mate, its a natural defensive mechanisms to be negative. LOL Forced induction is just that, forcing or ramming air mechanically down the engines throat. Come on ladies, lets share the love, ideas & be friends! LOL
_________________ Mind f**k!!! it works on feeble minded ignorant sheeples... there's plenty of em on this site... some are very intelligent but by god they are so thick!!! Pakrat wrote: You can buy them seppertly
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| Steady ED |
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Slick, EL XR8 has a supercharger, so your comment misses the mark a bit.
Personally I couldn't give a stuff that theres a void that CAPA has left, that Raptor are trying to fill. It doesn't give there affiliates/customers any excuse to come on this forum and spam it, making out as if they are the greatest thing since sliced bread. Especially when I can't even find a compressor map for something that purports, and I quote.. Tradewind wrote: With an ultra high speed Gear Drive in Raptor V all other superchargers in this class could not compete .... end of story. The impeller and cover are that good.
_________________ ED XR8 Sprint - S-Trim, V500, 249rwkw |
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