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| shoey50 |
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hey guys i have currently just got a 302 from a el fairmont that i am goin to slowly rebuild and put in my ef falcon, now what i want to do is get a s**t load more power from it just just wondering what the guys/gals that are running 200rwkw have done to get that sort of power? ive been reseaching things like gt40p heads explorer manifolds etc but am a bit unsure as to what sort of max power you can get out of all this stuff any info would be great cheers shoey
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| Steady ED |
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have a read of these threads...
commercial-sponsors-forum-f53/302-top-end-rebuild-yep-another-one-t55508.html commercial-sponsors-forum-f53/heads-cam-dyno-pg-12-27-1-4mile-pg-18-t43643.html ford-v8-f2/heads-have-landed-t41056.html
_________________ ED XR8 Sprint - S-Trim, V500, 249rwkw |
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| XCSEDAN |
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Age: 35 Posts: 88 Joined: 28th Oct 2007 Ride: EDXR6, XC Falcon, EL2XR8 Location: Beveridge |
200rwkw? if its manual
GT40Ps, AU2 220 cam, extractors, good exhaust (either single 3" or dual 2.25"), explorer intake, 1.72:1 rockers, 75mm tb, 80mm maf, custom tune. oh yeah and seeing as you're rebuilding it anyway, up the compression to 10.5:1 with a stock bottom end that should easily see you at your 200rwkw goal. however, your budget dictates what you can do? if you have 6K to build and tune an engine and you can turn spanners, you could probably net 220-230rwkw out of a 302.
_________________ 1977 XC Sedan Project: Poo Brown, 351 toploader 9" . 1998 EL Series 2 XR8: Oxford Green 5spd manual. DEAD (KANGAROO) |
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| XCSEDAN |
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Age: 35 Posts: 88 Joined: 28th Oct 2007 Ride: EDXR6, XC Falcon, EL2XR8 Location: Beveridge |
200rwkw? if its manual
GT40Ps, AU2 220 cam, extractors, good exhaust (either single 3" or dual 2.25"), explorer intake, 1.72:1 rockers, 75mm tb, 80mm maf, custom tune. oh yeah and seeing as you're rebuilding it anyway, up the compression to 10.5:1 with a stock bottom end that should easily see you at your 200rwkw goal. however, your budget dictates what you can do? if you have 6K to build and tune an engine and you can turn spanners, you could probably net 220-230rwkw out of a 302.
_________________ 1977 XC Sedan Project: Poo Brown, 351 toploader 9" . 1998 EL Series 2 XR8: Oxford Green 5spd manual. DEAD (KANGAROO) |
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| Vic |
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{USERNAME} wrote: 200rwkw? if its manual GT40Ps, AU2 220 cam, extractors, good exhaust (either single 3" or dual 2.25"), explorer intake, 1.72:1 rockers, 75mm tb, 80mm maf, custom tune. oh yeah and seeing as you're rebuilding it anyway, up the compression to 10.5:1 Dunno about that, a T3 250 usually has about 190 - 200rwkw and that's a 5.6L motor. I'm of the opinion that just to get close to 200rwkw you'd need to upgrade the injectors, the valves in the standard GT40P head would need to be enlarged and some serious porting would be needed. Not sure if you intend to use the GT40 style intake but if you do then I don't believe you would get more than a 1 ~ 2 kw gain with a 75mm TB over a 70mm TB with an appropriate sized MAF and the necessary custom tune. The standard T220 cam would also need to be swapped out for something larger and the tune would have to be spot on for a 5L to get into the 200rwkw ball park.. There will be some smaller gains which might assist you to get closer to 200rwkw such as looking at the ignition side of things but that wouldn't be all that you could do to extract every bit out of that sort of engine setup.
_________________ 5.6L of carbon footprint. |
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| 67RCE |
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Go and read XH5LWeapon's build thread, AFR 165's, Explorer or RPM2 manifold, TFS-1 cam, good exhaust cme you will be pretty close
_________________ ILL60 - EF XR8, Sunroof, Ticky Kit, 19x8.5/19x11 TE37's, 347, AFr185's, TFS BoxRcustom converter, Hurst Quarterstick, huge billet cam. |
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| Scaffy |
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I took the easy way out and bought the Trick Flow top end kit. It includes pretty much everything you need aside from lifters. I went with a 70mm throttle body, 75mm maf (or is it 73?) and 24lb/hr injectors as well. Tuned it with a twEECer and Bob's your uncle! I'm also running Defilippo headers (which are probably robbing me of some torque) and single 3" exhaust. I'm somewhere around 205rwkw.
XH5LWEPN carefully selected his parts after a lot of research and ended up with an even better result. AFR 165s, Ford Racing E303 cam, Explorer intake, 24lb injectors and I think he's also running a 70mm tb as well.
_________________ Trickflow Street Heat top end kit, 70mm BBK TB & EGR, 24lb injectors, Underdrives & 3.73s: 275rwhp - 13.15@105mph NA / 12.37@116mph N20 |
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| EB-5LTR |
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a sneaky factor that people miss is that besides matching the performance parts to get your goal of 200rwk. You need EVERYTHING else in your engine to be running and functioning right.
This includes all electrical/ignition problems, vacuum, blocked exhaust, ALL sensors correctly working, cylinders all close to each other in compression, healthy gearbox/trans, tune, blowby etc to get there. Or you will be scratching your head in dissapointment. |
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| xafalcon |
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{USERNAME} wrote: {USERNAME} wrote: 200rwkw? if its manual GT40Ps, AU2 220 cam, extractors, good exhaust (either single 3" or dual 2.25"), explorer intake, 1.72:1 rockers, 75mm tb, 80mm maf, custom tune. oh yeah and seeing as you're rebuilding it anyway, up the compression to 10.5:1 Dunno about that, a T3 250 usually has about 190 - 200rwkw and that's a 5.6L motor. I'm of the opinion that just to get close to 200rwkw you'd need to upgrade the injectors, the valves in the standard GT40P head would need to be enlarged and some serious porting would be needed. Not sure if you intend to use the GT40 style intake but if you do then I don't believe you would get more than a 1 ~ 2 kw gain with a 75mm TB over a 70mm TB with an appropriate sized MAF and the necessary custom tune. The standard T220 cam would also need to be swapped out for something larger and the tune would have to be spot on for a 5L to get into the 200rwkw ball park.. There will be some smaller gains which might assist you to get closer to 200rwkw such as looking at the ignition side of things but that wouldn't be all that you could do to extract every bit out of that sort of engine setup. Factory GT40P heads flowed 195cfm, which is a touch over 400HP or 300kW. To acheive his rear wheel target they will be OK without any work at all, and they are cheap and plentiful. Blue 24lb injectors would be OK, topping out at 391 HP @ 100% duty cycle, but Red 30lb would be better though unless the fuel pressure is increased. The Cobra Intake supports 400HP and is very similar in design to the Explorer, so the Explorer should have similar flow but is again more readily available at reasonable cost. A 70mm TB would be OK with a larger MAF somewhere around 80mm. Camshaft profile about 230-235° @ 050 on 112-114 lobe separation will give a wide powerband. Exhaust will need to be 3" single, or 2.5" dual with an X pipe. You can build a strong motor without huge expense if you put it together in a matched combination. What I have described above is really only an AU3 XR8 engine with a bigger cam (& springs etc), MAF and maybe injectors (or adjustable FP regulator). And IMO the T3 250's were not a good example of a powerful street engine. I test drove one and was very disappointed. Ok, it was an automatic but I expected a lot more than it delivered.
_________________ XA Faimont 351C, AU2 XR8 Manual 5.0, DA LTD 5.0, Mk1 Capri 5.0, 1995 Mustang 5.0, EF2 XR8 Manual, EF2 Fairmont Ghia 5.0, AU3 XR8 Auto, AU2 XR8 Auto, AU2 XR8 Manual Ute, TE Cortina 5.0 Manual, DU LTD 5.0 soon to be manual |
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| raff-26 |
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Off topic.... but crikey XA FALCON I would hate to see/foot your fuel bill!!
 25.8 litres of ford V8...... XA Faimont 351C, EB Fairmont Manual 5.0, ED Fairmont S/W 5.0, Mk1 Capri 5.0, 1995 Mustang
_________________ EF Ghia 5L V8 |
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| xafalcon |
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It's not that bad, I'm actually down 5 litres atm but haven't edited my profile........
But the ED s/w is being replaced with a B&M blown 5.0 in a Cortina when I can find a suitable donor body.
_________________ XA Faimont 351C, AU2 XR8 Manual 5.0, DA LTD 5.0, Mk1 Capri 5.0, 1995 Mustang 5.0, EF2 XR8 Manual, EF2 Fairmont Ghia 5.0, AU3 XR8 Auto, AU2 XR8 Auto, AU2 XR8 Manual Ute, TE Cortina 5.0 Manual, DU LTD 5.0 soon to be manual |
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| 66 coupe |
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{USERNAME} wrote: But the ED s/w is being replaced with a B&M blown 5.0 in a Cortina when I can find a suitable donor body. Have done one of these in an EB xr8 burnout car.. Std 200k motor, Until it lifted the heads, it went very hard, had no problems sitting on the limiter (6000rpm) in 4th gear (btr auto). And it mostly (except 15-20mm of the pulley) fit under the bonnet, carb and all 
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| xafalcon |
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Hey 66 coupe, since you've been there and done that, can you scan my build and let me know if I've missed anything important. Being a positive displacement blower, the rev limiter will be set at 5.5k hence I've not uprated the rods. Here are the main details, basic parts (rings, bearings t/c, o/p etc) are also done but no point in listing, all quality stuff
- std bore 5.0 block - DSS racing (aka FMS) girdle & windage tray - arp main studs - stock rods - trw forged pistons - moly rings with end gap set to 24 thou - 351W D8 heads (69cc) with large valves and over 50 hours porting - custom hydraulic roller cam grind (my profile) 282/295/224/232/114 - roller rockers - arp head studs - 650DP modified for external power valve reference (also have 750DP) - MSD 6BTM - Pulleys are set to make about 9lbs boost according to the calculations I'm just waiting on the valve springs/retainers/locks to come from USA and I can finish the build. It will run through a C4 with 2.5k stall converter. cheers
_________________ XA Faimont 351C, AU2 XR8 Manual 5.0, DA LTD 5.0, Mk1 Capri 5.0, 1995 Mustang 5.0, EF2 XR8 Manual, EF2 Fairmont Ghia 5.0, AU3 XR8 Auto, AU2 XR8 Auto, AU2 XR8 Manual Ute, TE Cortina 5.0 Manual, DU LTD 5.0 soon to be manual |
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| 66 coupe |
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looks like you've got it all sussed, enginewise...
make sure the fuel system is upto the task. Is the c4 manualised? |
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| xafalcon |
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Thanks.
Fuel pump is a holley blue plus reg. Noisy, but it should keep up with demands Haven't decided on the transmission setup yet. Maybe a Performance Automatic C4 from USA if I can find some dollars. Otherwise I'll use my local guy who can build a tough C4 that will do to get me going. But I'm also thinking about a Lentech or Baumann AOD or AOD-E for a future mod if I decide to keep the car for a while. I'll put a 9" in the rear. I've already got a 3.25 LSD head in my collection so that will be a good start.
_________________ XA Faimont 351C, AU2 XR8 Manual 5.0, DA LTD 5.0, Mk1 Capri 5.0, 1995 Mustang 5.0, EF2 XR8 Manual, EF2 Fairmont Ghia 5.0, AU3 XR8 Auto, AU2 XR8 Auto, AU2 XR8 Manual Ute, TE Cortina 5.0 Manual, DU LTD 5.0 soon to be manual |
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