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| One Drone |
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How many kms has the car got? When my pump was dying, it would be harder for it to start but as it got warm it would be fine. Pump sounded different though. If you have one, it's not hard to replace anyway and will just eliminate that as a fault. For an item that costs $80 for every 100,000kms or so it should be a regular maintanence item.
Failing that, the chip does sound dodgy.
_________________ There are 10 types of people in this world. |
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| Scaffy |
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If you undo the bracket that's holding your EEC in (below the passenger kick panel) you'll be able to find a sticker on it with a code such as 4DEG or another combination beginning in a number followed by 3 letters.
_________________ Trickflow Street Heat top end kit, 70mm BBK TB & EGR, 24lb injectors, Underdrives & 3.73s: 275rwhp - 13.15@105mph NA / 12.37@116mph N20 |
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| V8 Ghia Mike |
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Hi guys, appreciate the suggestions. Took car back to auto elec this morning after a VERY hard time starting it. Same codes came up again, canister purge valve MAF and PIP. Car takes a solid 5 minutes of cranking to start, very annoying.
The code on the ECU is 4DED. When cold it still splutters under light load, give it a boot and it clears and goes hard. It still seems like an electrical issue as it just cranks and cranks with no firing at all. Then the next time I start the car, it will fire without a problem, usually OK when warm. MAF? Hall Effect pickup in dizzy? TFI is Bosch and less than a year old. The tacho flickering in time with the misfiring must indicate something as I'm sure it doesn't do that with a dud plug or lead. Where do I go from here? Cheers, Mike
_________________ EF Ghia 5.0 - XR8 in a tuxedo....classy, low and loud |
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| XR9UTE |
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As I suspected the PIP code came up again so there's your problem. Canp will not affect the engine running. Could also be the MAF but try running it without the MAF plugged in...it should go into MAF failure mode and run really rich but it should still run without missing...if it still misses;
Change the Hall effect in your dizzy or just get another dizzy from somewhere. |
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| V8 Ghia Mike |
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G'day mate, I just had some success. I cleaned up the Hall Effect sensor with elec. contact cleaner (it didn't look dirty), cleaned and tightened the two connector wire to the coil and tapped the ECU. The car fired first time! I'm not sure which of these steps did the trick, but I'll let you know how it goes later on.
Thanks! Mike
_________________ EF Ghia 5.0 - XR8 in a tuxedo....classy, low and loud |
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| EB-5LTR |
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sounds like a A. leads are arcing somewhere......OR
youv got a cracked sparkplug. Very easy to do and most electritions over look the fact your plugs could be cracked. I had this a while ago, same symptoms. I pulled out all plugs and couldnt see anything. I re-checked it another week later and found a nice hairline crack in cylinder 2 plug (it was so fine you can only see when you wiggle the plug). That was the culprit. Try getting some cheap bosch sparkplugs for $25 and change them over to see it clears. A cracked plug tends to work good when you give it a bootful, but runs like s**t just plotting about. |
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| V8 Ghia Mike |
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Aaaargh! The car wouldn't start again tonight from cold! Crank, crank, crank for about 5 minutes, a couple of little coughs and some overrunning on the seemingly flooded cylinders and eventually fires to a perfect idle, WTF?
On very light cruise, it seems OK. Under, say, 20-30% throttle and light load it coughs and splutters again, still breaking down a bit at full throttle. Can someone explain the MAF for me? I understand it controls fuel mixture. Can it directly affect the spark, i.e. a fault will directly cut voltage to the coil/distributor/leads/plugs or only lean out/richen the mixture? Can a fault directly cut fuel to an injector? EB-5LTR, I get what you are saying, but I have one month old plugs, pretty new leads and was very careful fitting them (done the cracked plug thing before  ). I've even swapped around each lead with a new one to check them and no difference. When I got it started tonight, I checked for any arcing in the darkness- nothing. It was actually idling better than it normally does....I might swap out the fuel pump this weekend and see how it goes, but when cranking it doesn't even attempt to spark the fuel. Cheers guys, Mike
_________________ EF Ghia 5.0 - XR8 in a tuxedo....classy, low and loud |
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| wrexed03 |
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What a pain. I felt your pain couple of months ago with an old EF i purchased from an old bloke. Prick didnt tell me it had this starting problem. Found out the hard way.
In my case i tried another ECU, Smartlock bypass unit, New crank angle sensor and problem was still there. Only thing i didnt try was the coil pack. At the end i gave up and sold it and made a couple of hundred on top of what i paid for initially. Hope you sort it. Ran great when it did start. When it failled it had fuel but no spark. Regards |
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| XR9UTE |
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Cleaning the hall effect won't help but it's possible the connections are dodgy....see if you can get another dizzy to try.
The MAF plays a major part in load calculation so if it's faulty the EEC will go into MAF failure mode where it run very rich and base timing will be invoked but it shouldn't miss. |
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| Scaffy |
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Is it right that you were saying you've been suffereing these problems for 7 or 8 years (not starting without throttle, etc)? Is that when you had the chip or flash done? If so, it sounds to me like you could possibly have a problem with the tune. I'm pretty vague on it now, but when I tuned my car, I had a problem when I went from cruising to applying a bit of throttle where it would cough and hesitate that turned out to be something to do with the transition from closed loop to open loop, I think. But if this hasn't been a problem the whole time, then it's probably not it. Maybe look around for another EEC that's compatible with your car to see if it helps.
Did you do as XR9UTE suggested and try running the car with the MAF unplugged? Was there a difference in the way it ran? Can you get hold of another MAF to try? I know you said you changed the leads individually. I've done this before and not found the constant missing I've previously suffered. It wasn't until I changed all 4 on one side that it fixed the problem.
_________________ Trickflow Street Heat top end kit, 70mm BBK TB & EGR, 24lb injectors, Underdrives & 3.73s: 275rwhp - 13.15@105mph NA / 12.37@116mph N20 |
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| V8 Ghia Mike |
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{USERNAME} wrote: Is it right that you were saying you've been suffereing these problems for 7 or 8 years (not starting without throttle, etc)? Is that when you had the chip or flash done? Did you do as XR9UTE suggested and try running the car with the MAF unplugged? Was there a difference in the way it ran? Can you get hold of another MAF to try? Yeah, it's been a crappy cold-start idler for years. It was fine for about a year, then I was filling it with fuel and it suddenly wouldn't start and idle on it's own without throttle. Never did again... I've emailed ChipTorque during the week, but haven't received a courtesy reply yet. Too busy with the turbo kids I suspect.  Well, today I swapped out the fuel pump, no difference. In fact, it won't even start at all after solid cranking for 5 minutes. I took the Ka down to the video shop instead. It always starts! So, after plugs, coil, rotor, dizzy cap, fuel filter, TFI module, fuel pump, fuel pump relay, TPS reset, PIP voltage check and new alternator, what am I left with? ECU or dizzy? Can the Hall Effect pickup be replaced in the dizzy? As XR9 said, MAF shouldn't affect spark. I'm now wondering if anyone can loan/ sell me an ECU and dizzy to plug in and see if the car will run? I'd appreciate the help. I can get cheap rates through Toll Priority. Any takers?  Mike
_________________ EF Ghia 5.0 - XR8 in a tuxedo....classy, low and loud |
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| Scaffy |
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I've got a 6DGD sitting at home, which as far as I know is auto v8. Only problem is that I'm not at home for another 3 and a half weeks. Call around as many Ford wreckers as you can. You should be able to come up with something. XR9UTE should be able to help you out with a list off EECs that would suit your car. Or even have a look in the catch code section of the ECU/Electrical or whatever it is forum.
_________________ Trickflow Street Heat top end kit, 70mm BBK TB & EGR, 24lb injectors, Underdrives & 3.73s: 275rwhp - 13.15@105mph NA / 12.37@116mph N20 |
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| V8 Ghia Mike |
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Thanks mate, it may boil down to ECU replacement.
 How will another ECU affect the car? I've checked in the catch code list and the one I got back from ChipTorque is from a later car (V8 Futura). If I can get an EL ECU, what happens (speed sensitive steering etc.)? I did some more fiddling today and still won't start at all. I repaired a corroded connector to the coil and cleaned up various wiring harness connectors. I even opened up the ECU to check for leaking caps and it's clean as a whistle in there. Also cleaned up the multi pin connector to it. I've ordered a Hall sensor assembly from Repco ($125) that arrives tomorrow. It appears that it will unbolt OK from the top if the dizzy, but after removing the sensor ring, how does the silver mounting plate underneath pull off the narrow shaft? Help! Cheers, Mike
_________________ EF Ghia 5.0 - XR8 in a tuxedo....classy, low and loud |
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| V8 Ghia Mike |
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Performed a few more checks that I found here:
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,588.0.html A great site, lots of good info for Windsor owners. OK, plenty of spark from coil to dizzy, voltage from ground to + and - terminal @coil, solid voltage from gnd to - @coil when rotating dizzy, voltage from gnd to pin 4 at TFI (power), injectors have power when checked between the red connector wire and gnd. So, injectors, dizzy and TFI have plenty of power to them, the fuel pump primes, engine cranks....gotta be the Hall sensor, right? I can't recall whether the tacho usually reads anything whilst cranking the motor under normal conditions, but mine's not doing so now. What does the tacho read RPM from, TFI or Hall Effect sensor? As it was flickering with my previous misfiring when driving, it must point to the problem as I've basically ruled nearly everything else out. Thanks, Mike
_________________ EF Ghia 5.0 - XR8 in a tuxedo....classy, low and loud |
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| XR9UTE |
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You will have to completely disassemble the distributor to change the Hall Effect which is why I said to get another dizzy to try. It's the most likely problem unless your eec is dodgy. I have a coupla 4DEG EEC's if you need one but TRY A DIZZY first!
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