Yeah mate - That's pretty much what I am up to myself - but would have liked to move or extend the vent to allow the hot air out from radiator - idea being to keep the BBM cooler.

Has anyone got a source of Phenolic material to sit between the head and the manifold? I've tried searching and have a standard email I've sent to all sorts of oddball geeks, but none returned anything positive.



This drawing shows the vent coming out the top of an air box, as you described...... I don't know what a CAI stands for - forgive me, being nothing if not a novice with an interest and time on my hands...

--- EDIT --- [C]old [A]ir [I]nduction. IDIOT!

Does the airbox come from a standard snorkel first? As discussed, the biggest drawback is the snorkel and bonnet flow between lights, bumper and bonnet before the snorkel entry. If your drawing is correct, and I presume it is, then you're not taking hot air out of engine bay, but are dragging more into the airbox through the oddly designed bonnet gap arrangement. This won't work well until the car reaches a speed, of course... But then will provide a decent enough air supply for the engine to find ease in it's work of sucking it up. At low speeds, or idling at lights the pod will draw air in through the vent as that route provides less restriction than snorkel etc etc etc out front.

That's the same theory I was going with... The air from my grill (the grill is actually a grill by the way, not a blocked up imitation as Ford supplies) is kept separate from engine bay and radiator and simply deflected around to the pod and then simply disperses up the engine bay - whereas your spare air is vented to get a swift movement over pod. I like it.

Apparently the standard filter in air box only blocks about 5% of total air loss to the Throttle Body so no real need for POD. Other than - and this is obvious - you remove or put holes in your air box.


Here's a copy of FAST-XR's system, for those with limited attention spans or without the ability to PDF....

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

yes its the standard air box with a rubber seal that sits inbetween the bonnet vent and the airbox lid. the air box is being fed by the standard snorkel and a typhoon style intake at the front of the box which is equivalent to about a 4 inch hole.

thats right, the vents are no longer extracting engine bay heat, instead helping the engine breathe...

ive seen phenolic spacers to seperate the top half of the BBM from the bonnet (about $150 ebay) but not seperating the BBM from the head...

sorry, bottom, not bonnet!

here it is

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/COLD-AIR-INTAKE- ... 240%3A1318

not sure if its worth while or not, the serious heat is off the head, and once the butterflys open its straight into hot runners, which is when you want to make the power...

Here's a letter (feel free to cut and paste and send to all sorts of people)

I was wondering if you have any information that would help me find a sheet (or two) of Phenolic material suitable for positioning between a large alloy intake Broad Band manifold and the actual engine body or head.

The idea is that although the actual intake temperature is low (pretty much with a degree of ambient) by the time the air passes through ducting, filter, throttle body and travels through up to 300mm of manifold it has possibly reached 60 or 70 degrees by the time it is injected with fuel and ignited. To make this problem worse, if I ever work out how to put a supercharger on, the air will be compressed and thus combining with a hot intake would produce silly temperatures at cylinder.

I would like a sheet of Phenolic substance that I could cut into a gasket type arrangement and place between the head and the manifold in order to stop this direct heat transfer disrupting possible top end power and not helping fuel consumption.

The manifold measures about 800mm long so would need about an A4 sheet sized piece to cut into two halves and create said gasket arrangement.



I am not a scientist, nor am I a mechanic. I am simply a guy with ideas who has time to do daft experiments...





All good. I like the thinking FastX. Seems to be working for you with the 14.3 @ 96mph. That's not much slower than an average run on the old Yamaha 250. Terminal speed was about the same, but I guess the little Yamaha 250 got to 60mph a bit quicker than a 1.5 tonne car...

And, yeah - I figured "BOTTOM", not "BONNET". Had me reaching for my little blue pills at first, but figured it....

Can't quite work out their thinking in charging $150 for something that only cools the top half on BBM and therefore only does anything to air at low revs (and even then the air has to go through real hot stuff before and after!). Why not just do something like this...

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/COLD-AIR-INTAKE- ... 240%3A1318
? Wierdos!

Last edited by fiend on Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

exactly, i already emailed the guy about it

the 14.3 was done with this arrangement....

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

That arrangement, as you put it, looks fine at first glance, but as the test data shows, that position isn't a high pressure zone. You'd get better by extending the 80mm or so ducting you have there down to directly above the headlight or bumper... Either that or sticking it out of bonnet by another six inches to get into the faster air flow, but even then most of the air there would already be part of a bow wave or shocked by the front of the car... Would have liked to have my hands on your bonnet when doing the induction pressure testing that I plan...! Putting a further pipe on the end of that setup and then measuring responses beyond directly in front of filter should provide further food for thought (read - confusion...!)

With your improved system (as your quick sketch) I'd guess slightly better responses, although little difference over the 0-50km/h range. Once you get about 50kmh, the low pressure at that area will start sucking air out the engine bay meaning you're actually collecting used air from your radiator. As I found on my FIEND SCALE, the throttle can use up to +3.5 continuously when combined with my relatively nice extractors... The area you're getting air from in picture is -3. If the unit was sealed to a complete bonnet that would mean your engine was actually working twice as hard to drag air into its starving self.

However, since it is not sealed, you're collecting warm dirty old air from your engine bay as it is at +1 to +2 and is heading towards the -3 of the outside and the -3.5 of the induction pipe...

I ain't no mathematician, you'd better go see Russell Crow (that NZ throwaway, no good, small man syndrome, actor guy...) and ask him and his beautiful mind about the exact dynamic of sucking 3.5 units out of a space which would have -3.


My head hurts.

yeah i never thought about it sucking air out of the bonnet even though its protuding from it.

my nest drag setup will use my existing airbox setup except ill replace the filter with a nice bell mouth entry i made, which tapers from 5" to 3"

That sounds like the one dude. Would be real interested to see what your time comes in at, although you may have changed other things too? There's nowhere like that set up around my area, and entering my slow old wagon into a quarter mile event seems a little stupid just so I can get an official time. Mind you - would be nice to see what it does standard to gauge further improvements against later. Where was that entry form?

no its still the same setup, im using the taper of a 3" reducing fitting as the bellmouth, hopefully ill have another time slip in 2 weeks

Cool... That time slip will be interesting... By my junior calculations I'd
suggest more pressure in the manifold resulting in more fuel in the
chamber resulting in faster revs...




On the side issue here - I have found a source of enough 8mm Phenolic
sheet to sink a battle ship, but they'll sell me a 100x800x8mm sheet for
$80NZ, shipped and landed to my house. YAY.

Now for the interesting part.

During my search I found this company that produces similar things for
the NZV8 series (Kayne Scott, Craig Baird --- You know... The NZ equal
to the Kinolta or development series in AU)...

This outfit don't have a setup for the Inline Six Four Litre that we know
and love (or hate on particularly bad days) but I convinced them to give
me their email address and will look at producing an AutoCad file for
them to make real nicely finished, brand spanking, gaskets for us.


They use a 60,000psi water jet to cut almost bloody
anything... This gasket should be a breeze.


I have also found thinner material available, which would allow me to cut
it relatively happily myself using garage workshop tools. But the 8mm
seems to cope with laying waste to well over 200 degrees C... Awesome,
that'd keep that troublesome hunk of heatsink known as a manifold cool.
Yeah baby!



If there's any interest in this, I will save money on the product by being
able to order more than one... Only thing to consider is the possible need
for slightly longer bolts to go through into the engine as you're adding
8mm.

Okay - Am now off to find an old gasket from the intake side and start tracing!...

Go for a drive in your Inline 6 and then pop the bonnet and stick your
hand on the inlet manifold. Then tell all your mates to do the same. Then
consider the possibility of isolating the manifold from the engines heat.
Then get back to me here.

http://www.fordmods.com/forums/post915148.html#915148

.

Last edited by fiend on Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

what are the units of pressure are u measuring the air pressures with?

That is a hard one to answer. The measurements are purely taken in
relation to relatively stable air pressure (in cabin, behind rear-view mirror).


The test was conducted as described.


The results can best be defined as mm of water movement within a 10mm
pipe. Becuase of the limitations of my marking utensil, my result of, say 3.5
would actually be a water movement of 7mm. This movement is not a peak
measurement, but is an average - and the result was held stable at 70km/h
for two seconds or longer on flat road.


Am on strict budgets here!...

Last edited by fiend on Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.