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| Shifteh |
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well they are an electromagnet so im guessing like , well this is a sligtley educated guess ad say around 1 amp maby or more
_________________ Crank Assembly balanced, HV oil pump, ACL Trimetal bearings, "1 extra oil clearance taking to around 0.0650-0.0700 on mains and big ends, Moly rings,, Xr6 Cam, POD ( Possibly oversize injectors), Block, Head, Timing cover, belt idler, Alternator,painted in ford light blue |
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| misk_one |
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yeah sweet, i just grabbed some that will handle 30amp cause they were cheap and suited my needs anyway.
going to do a proof of concept using 4 switches, got it all wired up just need to get the car running to test it.
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| skidder |
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{USERNAME} wrote: i know the combos for each gear, im just wondering why there seems to be so little that have attempted anything like this... Because just to operate the solenoids you need a multistage voltage switch (or multiple <V, <V<,V<) running from your selector, then you need amplifiers/regulators to get the output signal such that is right for approx 1 watt which runs through the solenoids. I as yet haven't found any off the shelf voltage switches which come close to fitting the application. Definately could be done, but unless you are extremely handy with designing ICB's you are going to end up with an overly complex circuit as you will have all the elements separate. This is accepting that you will not be running S3/4/5 so won't really be street friendly (not that full manualised is that street friendly anyway).
_________________ {USERNAME} wrote: Cramping in the hand from having it on your Wang for an excessive period of time is a definate con. Seriously do people google "f**k up modifications for Fords owned by Jews" and get linked straight to this site nowadays? AU,factory fitted tickford kit/IRS, t5,Sports ryder/KYB: gone. |
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| misk_one |
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so you are saying the solenoids cannot be turned on or off simply by supplying 12v in an instance where you are only changing the gears with none of the other solenoids being used?
has anyone actually tested this theory, and what was the outcome?
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| skidder |
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No, you can operate the solenoids in this fashion.
The process of converting the output from your PRND321 selector (variable voltage) to an on/off solenoid mechanism running at 12V with the ability to feed the 15ohm resistance (which is what the solenoids are from memory) is the complex process. I can't find my exact info, but an example of how the PRND321 output (to pin64 on AU ecu) is 1 = 0.2v-0.4v, 2 = 0.5v-0.7v, 3 = 0.8v-1v etc etc. So for first gear you would need a voltage switch that turns on under 0.4v, then following you would need an amplifier or regulator to ensure you had 12v running across the solenoid (or 2 solenoids for gears requiring on/on). For 2nd you would need a switch that turns on between 0.5-0.7v followed by amplifiers/regulators for 12v across the appropriate solenoids and so forth. This part sounds simple, but when you start drawing an actual diagram for it and working out the maths you will see what I mean. I was really keen on going ahead but as soon as I picked up a manual conversion on the cheap my interest dwindled.
_________________ {USERNAME} wrote: Cramping in the hand from having it on your Wang for an excessive period of time is a definate con. Seriously do people google "f**k up modifications for Fords owned by Jews" and get linked straight to this site nowadays? AU,factory fitted tickford kit/IRS, t5,Sports ryder/KYB: gone. |
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| misk_one |
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are you sure the voltage variation is not just the gearbox sending that data to the ECU to let it know which gear it is it?
Quote: Transmission Position: [p]3.8V-4.2V, [R]3.3V-3.7V, [N]2.8V-3.2V, [D]2.3V-2.7V, [3]1.8V-2.2V, [2]1.3V-1.7V, [1]0.8V-1.2V Manual Transmission, Neutral 0V-0.1V, In gear 5Volts Quote: Auto Trans Gear Select Solenoid (S1) 0Volts off, 12V On Auto Trans Gear Select Solenoid (S2) 0Volts off, 12V On if the ECU sent a signal of varying volts on gear changes, it would read 0v off - 12v on; of list the volts required for each gear to change.
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| skidder |
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You actually may be correct....I haven't looked at it for a while and am going from memory.
I was thinking the variable output came dependant of the position of the selector itself (as oppose to what gear the box was actually in at that time) and went to the ecu, then it calculated based upon its position as well as load, rpm and such which gear the box should be in and gave the outputs?
_________________ {USERNAME} wrote: Cramping in the hand from having it on your Wang for an excessive period of time is a definate con. Seriously do people google "f**k up modifications for Fords owned by Jews" and get linked straight to this site nowadays? AU,factory fitted tickford kit/IRS, t5,Sports ryder/KYB: gone. |
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| misk_one |
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i would say you may be correct, but the data in an auto setup would only be used for certain things.
ie. when in first, the box is not able to change to the higher gears, i believe the torque converter lockup would also be activated. when in drive, it knows to calculate which gear to choose on its own, neutral would mean less airflow through the ISC is required to obtain the desired idle etc. but if the box has no access to the S1/S2 solenoids (in a 'full manual' setup), it doesn't matter if te shifter is in any of the 1/2/3/D gears anyway cause it cant change them - just like being in limp home mode, the ECU just stops sending a signal to both S1/S2 as a default its stuck in thrd. Park, Reverse and Neutral are all controller from within the box anyway and wouldn't require calculations other than idle speed and knowing that its safe start the car or not.
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| misk_one |
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well i just did a hack job test..
i intercept the S1 and S2 wires at the ECU and have both ends up at the console, i first tested it with no signal to either wire, and it was in third, added a positive signal to both wires, and i shifts into first, take the wires off and it shifts back into third. this is without disconnecting any of the other solenoids
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| skidder |
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Yep yep correct.
Do you intend on using standard shifter or aftermarket? I haven't looked into whether there is anything changed internally on the box depending upon the position of the shifter (I have a suspicion for park it may physically move things, not just affect electronically....also not sure on it's effect on the bands as I know that when you manually select certain gears it engages bands that aren't normally engaged for those gears - for first I believe this is the case and not sure whether it is done electronically or physically) The main hurdle I faced was I wanted to keep the standard PRND321 selector/shifter, so wanted to essentially bypass the ecu by using the variable voltage straight into voltage switches to control s1/2 that way (i.e. moving the standard selector to 1 would give an output 0.8-1.2V which through the switch would activate the correct solenoids to put the box straight into 1).
_________________ {USERNAME} wrote: Cramping in the hand from having it on your Wang for an excessive period of time is a definate con. Seriously do people google "f**k up modifications for Fords owned by Jews" and get linked straight to this site nowadays? AU,factory fitted tickford kit/IRS, t5,Sports ryder/KYB: gone. |
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| 66 coupe |
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google btr manual controller
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| Shifteh |
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im quite interested in getting this going as well
 and to solve the selector resistance issue you could just have multiple pole switches that switch the solenoids as well as swicthing resistance to the ecu, no microcomputers, no ipads, just a few resisters and some fun Can you post known solenoid configs for each gear, i will rig up test with switches maby have paddles :d , could allways use momentary wiper and high beam momentary as gear changesIf you supply me with the config of the wires when each gear is selected i may even have enough energy to maby mass produce units
_________________ Crank Assembly balanced, HV oil pump, ACL Trimetal bearings, "1 extra oil clearance taking to around 0.0650-0.0700 on mains and big ends, Moly rings,, Xr6 Cam, POD ( Possibly oversize injectors), Block, Head, Timing cover, belt idler, Alternator,painted in ford light blue |
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| misk_one |
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all that is required is control over the S1 and S2 solenoids.
1st - S1/S2 2nd - S2 3rd - no power to either solenoid 4th - S1 park, reverse and neutral are all mechanical. you can still use the standard shifter, but finding the correct switch is the obvious issue. there is no need for resistance or voltage variation to be corrected as this is data being sent from the gearbox to the ECU. not the other way around. removing the link between the ECU and S1/S2 just puts the box in limp home mode - only because its stuck in third as that is the configuration required to change into third. remember im talking about a full manual not too user friendly setup, not one that will drive like the car is in 'D'. but it should be able to be switched on or off quite easily. edit - im not sure if this is possible with the use of S3-S5 solenoids as yet, as they are used to control the gearbox preparing it to change gears and after changing gears. im going to go do another test or two now.
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| EFFalcon |
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what happens to the torque converter lock up solenoid?
_________________ FALCN6 - EF GLi Turbo, 20" Rims, Air Bag Suspension, Straight LPG, 225rwkw |
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| misk_one |
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you would have to make switch for that based on your own preference.
ie. at a certain speed, or certain RPM and certain gear. could be a few ways to go about it.
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