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| TimmyA |
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Anybody have any thoughts... Mechanical boost gauge reads as follows...
https://vimeo.com/158144111 Pretty much zero boost... Cheers, Tim
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| roughredXR6 |
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Personally I'd be pulling the turbo out and physically checking it out.
I'm assuming you've checked over the pressure side for split or slipped pipe joints? Have you inspected the intercooler for damage or cracks? Could always tie the gate shut and disable the bov for test purpose, see if you can make it boost with everything mechanically held shut. If it was dumping air from the pressure side it would be loud. You would definitely hear it.
_________________ Ported ED XR6 head shaved too much, AU gasket, custom Crow Cam, Pacemaker 4480's, 5-speed conversion, billet aluminium flywheel, GT clutch, T.I. Performance J3 chip, custom water/methanol injection, modified BA throttle body. Paint&Panel by Barbed Wire Fence. |
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| TimmyA |
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Thinking I'm agreeing... Looks like a right prick of a job to do but... I've just ordered a turbo smart 5 psi wastegate... They reckon theirs is superior to fords so we'll see...
I can't hear a damn thing from it... I have had all the piping off to investigate and definitely noticed no pipe issues... Can't see any cooler damage through the front bar... I am thinking the wastegate gate must be broken inside... Would the wastegate hole be big enough to prevent any spool at all but? Cheers, Tim
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| roughredXR6 |
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Yeah it'd have to be otherwise it wouldn't be able to limit boost at full load/high rpm.
I'm also thinking broken gate.
_________________ Ported ED XR6 head shaved too much, AU gasket, custom Crow Cam, Pacemaker 4480's, 5-speed conversion, billet aluminium flywheel, GT clutch, T.I. Performance J3 chip, custom water/methanol injection, modified BA throttle body. Paint&Panel by Barbed Wire Fence. |
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| TimmyA |
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Fixed this...
That turbo is a b**ch to get off... That stupid bracket that holds the turbo off the engine mount is a right pain in the a**... Managed to get it all off and back on including said stupid bracket... The E clip had come off the wastegate actuator so the flappy was dangling in the breeze... Whoever says you need a 3" exhaust is lying because with the tiny wastegate hole open I couldn't even produce any boost... That tiny hole was taking everything... I bought a 5psi turbosmart actuator to replace the factory 3psi unit while I had it off... Was I direct fit and seems to be much better quality than the factory job... You'd have to take the turbo off the car to fit one but... I ordered 4 new studs from ford for the turbo to manifold... They have changed them and the manifold end is now a tapered shape to assist in locking them in so they don't vibrate out... I put some loktite super retainer on them too to assist in them staying put this time... Managed to track down some copper 10x1.25 locking exhaust nuts and they got medium loktite to assist them in staying put too... Now sounds like a turbo again... live data on the Autel shows a nice continuous basically 20psi abs on the intake sensor (5psi rel) and it spikes briefly to 23-24 when you off the throttle... Apparently the turbosmart BOV eliminates that so I might be investing in one of those too and comparing... Turbo out the MIL was right but... Wastegate failing open... Thanks for your thoughts guys!
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| TimmyA |
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Well...
The ED is set for some new "aspirations"... I have just received a second hand Sprintex Blower Kit that was originally made up by snort... So in the coming months I'm going to be getting some other bits and pieces to get this thing on there... After talking to tuners and doing some research I'm going to go with the new Haltech Elite 750 that' just been released and run it in piggy back with the factory PCM to retain transponder imobilisation, Ford's thermofan strategy as it's pretty in depth and it works and I like it so why reinvent the wheel, and the data for the temp sensor and that... I'll get the Walbro 255 (245?) lph in tank pump, came with 42lb Bosch injectors and a fuel reg (might buy a good one but, any recommendations?) I also have a custom billet AU fixed cam (no VCT) for it as well which is a low rpm cam I'm told, ground by CVE... Can't get specs for it but being custom... This will be so much easier for the emissions and vac stuff as the TB is before the blower so sees no boost, after the TB is the same manifold vac as an NA setup, losing vac at WOT and going only to atmospheric pressure... I am going to change the bypass valve as sprintex have told me it's possibly not big enough and may cause the blower to get too hot... Down side is this isn't intercooled, but such is life... Maybe water/meth one day... There isn't much I can see me needing... Fuel pump, reg, coils, ECU, some gauges for tuning (going to 6 coils with the Haltech)... That seems like it to me... Seller's photos... Attachment: $_20.JPG Attachment: $_20 (1).JPG Attachment: image2.jpg I haven't had much to do with tuning before and haven't spoken to the tuner about it yet... What's the go with HEGO's? Delete it from the tune? Run the factory narrow band? Throw it and get a wideband for the tune? Cheers, Tim You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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| roughredXR6 |
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I like your style!
This isn't far off what I'm in the process of doing with my EF. I was also thinking of using the Elite 750 piggyback, however it does lack knock control which i think will be a handy safety measure with the blower. I'm now considering the 1500 instead, the added features are well worth the extra coin, plus it has duel CAN channels. Besides 6 coils is expensive, and batch fire works fine in the 4L, as it doesn't rev hard enough to have any major negative effects compared to multi coil. I have spoken to Haltech regarding o2 sensors. For the price, I think you'd be mad not to go with their wideband controller. CAN connection with the ecu, and allows full use of the elite's self tuning capabilities with long and short term fuel trim adjustment. Combined with knock control it would be a killer setup. I'm going to run water/meth cooling on mine too, and the 1500 is already setup to do this. The 750 requires you to write your own table (3D) and use one of the outputs for control. I was sold on the 750, but after many hours of careful consideration, I think the 1500 is better suited to a factory-like street car setup. You do loose ignition outputs, but like I said, the factory coil pack setup is plenty for what I want. Also the ignition channels are just that. They are not coil drivers. You need to add an ignition module to drive the coils. Also have a vct engine to go in, and the 1500 has sweet cam control. Too bad the au setup is only on/off. But I'll likely keep the vct in mine. The blower I'm using is a Eaton M122. Attachment: IMG_20160402_002939.jpg
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_________________ Ported ED XR6 head shaved too much, AU gasket, custom Crow Cam, Pacemaker 4480's, 5-speed conversion, billet aluminium flywheel, GT clutch, T.I. Performance J3 chip, custom water/methanol injection, modified BA throttle body. Paint&Panel by Barbed Wire Fence. |
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| SWC |
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TimmyA wrote: Well... The ED is set for some new "aspirations"... I have just received a second hand Sprintex Blower Kit that was originally made up by snort... So in the coming months I'm going to be getting some other bits and pieces to get this thing on there... After talking to tuners and doing some research I'm going to go with the new Haltech Elite 750 that' just been released and run it in piggy back with the factory PCM to retain transponder imobilisation, Ford's thermofan strategy as it's pretty in depth and it works and I like it so why reinvent the wheel, and the data for the temp sensor and that... I'll get the Walbro 255 (245?) lph in tank pump, came with 42lb Bosch injectors and a fuel reg (might buy a good one but, any recommendations?) I also have a custom billet AU fixed cam (no VCT) for it as well which is a low rpm cam I'm told, ground by CVE... Can't get specs for it but being custom... This will be so much easier for the emissions and vac stuff as the TB is before the blower so sees no boost, after the TB is the same manifold vac as an NA setup, losing vac at WOT and going only to atmospheric pressure... I am going to change the bypass valve as sprintex have told me it's possibly not big enough and may cause the blower to get too hot... Down side is this isn't intercooled, but such is life... Maybe water/meth one day... There isn't much I can see me needing... Fuel pump, reg, coils, ECU, some gauges for tuning (going to 6 coils with the Haltech)... That seems like it to me... I haven't had much to do with tuning before and haven't spoken to the tuner about it yet... What's the go with HEGO's? Delete it from the tune? Run the factory narrow band? Throw it and get a wideband for the tune? Cheers, Tim Consider using the Moates Quarterhorse chip instead of usin an aftermarket ECU. Very tunable unit. Make sure you get a Wideband O2 sensor and gauge. AFR's are what will kill you. |
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| TimmyA |
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I was just looking at your fb the other day... At least I think it was yours... Same looking set up... Small world... I had a M112 kit on order from Snort but he got sick and was having other problems so I ended up saying don't bother when this Sprintex kit come up... Apparently the M112 is a lobe blower? The S5-335 is a screw? Not sure if it makes much difference to performance but this is what I ended up with... I don't have the time to fabricate a manifold and that... I was either buying a kit or not at all... The S5-335 doesn't have a built in bypass so it's a bit smaller but has that headache of needing to add one... Can you measure the diameter of your bypass butterfly for me for curiosity if it's easily accessible?
I considered a few models of ECU... The trouble with the 1500 is that it doesn't even have enough outputs to support sequential injection... So you'd be running wasted spark and batch injection which to me is very 90's... For $750 less I get sequential injection, with no knock sensor which I have noted... I would like it, but it'd be looking at the near $3000 ECU to get sequential and knock control... Lot of money for me at least... The coils, I can run 6 on this 750, I can also run wasted spark, doesn't seem to matter what I buy but, to use the factory coil pack I need to buy a $300 driver, so I may as well go to LS coils with a built in driver for a little more money... The 750 also has a limited amount of IO, but I think I should have enough to get me going, I can use the on board MAP, Can HEGO, and the 5 inputs would be TPS, ECT, AIT, P/Steer (Ac Request), Immobiliser... Is the speed signal required for aftermarket computer in piggy back? I might never go with water/meth yet as it's just another headache of living in the country, I have to try and get it freighted here... It's not the cheapest stuff either (pre mixed version)... It seems like a good idea, but may also turn out to be a PITA... SWC... The Quarter horse is a J3 unit isn't it? I have had big problems with J3's in the past and I don't think I could ever go back that way again... I'd want something that just works and doesn't need to have its port cleaned monthly to avoid stuffing up... If I were to go the J3 path again I'd have to solder it to the main circuit board to avoid the connection issues, and I haven't read good things about J3 chips in AU PCM's... Cheers, Tim
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| TimmyA |
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Ah the VCT!
As far as I can see with these early VCT motors, most people are seeming to prefer the fixed cam approach... I can tell you from mine that there is SFA noticeable difference in it... If I unplug the cam solenoid and drive it and then plug it in, you would be none the wiser about it... Unless you can managed to get a cam angle sensor on it then it could never be run on PWM... I am 99% sure my blower kit will foul on the oil feed line too... I could find ways around it I guess... But I think I can get better results from a fixed cam which is made for low to mid power I'm told (car is a daily and hardly sees 4k rpm...) I have a Camtech VCT cam here I had reground for it too... Never got around to fitting it as it apparently won't run on the factory computer and there is a fair bit of work to installing it... I'll just pawn it back off I think now I have this custom billet cam... Cheers, Tim
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| roughredXR6 |
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Yeah that would have been my fb page. Don't think anyone else is doing a build like mine.
The M122 is a twisted lobe blower like you said. Screw blowers are more efficient, but they also cost a lot more. I picked the M122 up very cheap, and it suits the way i wanted to set it up on top of the manifold. Plus the internal bypass saves me having to work out how to plumb one in. I will have it off over the weekend so I'll measure the bypass for you. It's basically just a vacuum operated throttle so would be simple enough to fab up your own external one if you needed to. It doesn't need to be very big as it is only operating at higher vacuum conditions (closed or part throttle cruise) but apparently makes a fairly big difference to inlet air temps so it is needed. Ecu choice is a hard one. I still haven't decided 100%, but I'm still leaning towards the 1500. Sequential injection would be great but batch injection works fine too. I like to think of it as valve cooling haha. And I can't see not having a speed input being an issue in a manual setup. As far as water/meth cooling, I was running it on my last motor because of the high compression. I actually found that running 90% water mixed with 10% methylated spirits worked better as a knock suppressant than 50/50 water/meth. (I found more methanol required more volume injected to have the same result). I didn't feel any noticeable power difference either way, and the metho was only really added to prevent mould and algae growing in the water tank and lines. TBH, I think water injection is the best option for a blown street motor. I'll be using a staged setup on mine, one small nozzel for lower load and a big one for high load. For daily/town use 10L used to last me about 3 - 4 tanks of fuel. And VCT.......I'm glad you said that about not much difference unplugged. Might just stick with the ef motor for now then, just use the vct's fuel rail and reg for a bit more pressure. Don't think I'll need to go aftermarket reg with a pd blower setup, boost is pretty consistent unlike turbo. I have a set of 42lb injectors and a walbro pump to go in. What throttle are you going to use on it Tim?
_________________ Ported ED XR6 head shaved too much, AU gasket, custom Crow Cam, Pacemaker 4480's, 5-speed conversion, billet aluminium flywheel, GT clutch, T.I. Performance J3 chip, custom water/methanol injection, modified BA throttle body. Paint&Panel by Barbed Wire Fence. |
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| SWC |
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TimmyA wrote: SWC... The Quarter horse is a J3 unit isn't it? I have had big problems with J3's in the past and I don't think I could ever go back that way again... I'd want something that just works and doesn't need to have its port cleaned monthly to avoid stuffing up... If I were to go the J3 path again I'd have to solder it to the main circuit board to avoid the connection issues, and I haven't read good things about J3 chips in AU PCM's... Cheers, Tim Quarterhorse uses the J3 port. Lots of the V8 guys use the Quarterhorse, Troy with his supercharged AU XR8 being one that comes to mind and I have been using the Quarterhorse in my EF 4.0 for a couple of years now with no issues. It comes down to the quality of the chip. Up to you but does everything you will need, doesn't need to be removed to be tuned, can change tunes on the run. Just plug in the laptop and away you go. |
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| roughredXR6 |
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Tim.
The m122 bypass is 44mm.
_________________ Ported ED XR6 head shaved too much, AU gasket, custom Crow Cam, Pacemaker 4480's, 5-speed conversion, billet aluminium flywheel, GT clutch, T.I. Performance J3 chip, custom water/methanol injection, modified BA throttle body. Paint&Panel by Barbed Wire Fence. |
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| mr. cve |
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Wolf V550 has 8 injector outputs and 8 ignition outputs.
full sequential, and many configurable outputs. |
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| TimmyA |
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Cheers for the info... I missed your post... Assuming the 122 is bigger then the 112 I was originally considering?
Gives me some idea... Sprintex told me that too small puts too much load on the blower trying to recirculate air at part throttle... Leading to a red hot blower and blower failure... It'll only be a std throttle... Maybe a bored out one if I find one for sale... Your twin unit looks the ducks nuts... I think I like the haltech better than the Wolf... The 750 is cheaper and the software seems a thousand times easier to navigate... Will a std reg work on boost? I know a rising rate fmu probably isn't required, but I didn't think a std job worked above atmosphere... My kit has an alloy rail so I'll need to run an external unit... Gonna need some advice of someone in the know as to what I need but... Hmmm... Maybe water meth is ideal... If the 750 won't run it there is kits out there with they're own controller... I'd like to be able to just pick one nozzle size but, 2 stage sounds too involved for me... Did you imply that the 750 doesn't have the long term fuel trim? That's a bit of a bugger if it doesn't, I hadn't covered that... Cheers, Tim
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